you will be deleted on sight for any infraction from here on out. we gave you the chance to not do it anymore

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you want to have conversation about it an orderly fashion. sweet. lets do it. but you refuse too. celphi has been cool and giving good ideas.

you on the other hand. not so much

Right back at you

When can we both be mature and have that convo. Because we both know we have been both heated and fluffphats recently?

My problem with you bstrong is.... you take a position and build the great wall of china around it. Prove to me that we can have that healthy convo.

And celphi.... again good comments


And please point out where i made an infraction. Because I don't see it. Please enlighten me Bstrong

The difference in what you did as opposed to someone else is simple. You intended for ths to happen.

Other ppl log on, look at eestats and say ohhhh an easy kill.

You spied him down knowing the whole time what u were gonna do. You set out with an agenda to bend the rules

Here's the first comment from you on this whole thing





And you wonder why i am taking my stance

No Bending of rules my friend... just playing within them. Shoot me if i want to be a warring creature this set and hunt for my prey and would like to verify the hit quantity #'s before going in for it in an effective way. Maybe he has some SDI and want to save the missiles... maybe he reloaded some defense.... like to not bounce... is that not fair to check for the value of 1 turn?


I did intend for this to happen. I stated it early... and often that I was hunting for kills this set. It is my right without GDI to have fun againist another NoN GDI guy... (or getting a GDI to war me) as he has accepted the possibility by not taking GDI on.


I still don't see you quoting a rule or clause that states i was in the wrong... that is my point here.... it goes back to your perception of what is right and wrong. Am i right? or am i wrong?


This is why I have a problem with the way the modding is being done on this server. I'm starting to show some light on the issue

and then you try to take the high horse of being mature when you quote an old post. Admit it, you have a chip on your shoulder against me now.

And do you wonder why I take my stance?

I didnt until you started doing what you did. You wanted to attack my character rather then actually talk about the rules and have a conversation.

Do you read?

I won't fling name calling or the silly kid nonsense anymore... I was just very upset at how poorly you and your team has been handling this. You are all wrecking the express server by being ignorant of the ongoing cry of what is really a scandal. Instead of being the supporter of the game to hold it to the high standards and helping it evolve, a team dictatorship is basically in effect sticking to the old ways.


Maybe should have added an apology there... And i have no problem giving you one if we back pedal into the right direction.

So I'm going to say it right now... sorry for coming hard at you and stooping low for the 1-2 posts I came at you with mean comments.


What I ask of you now is to back up via the rules why what I did was a deletable offence. Because what it sounds like is you are admitting that I am playing within the rules but you don't like it one bit.

What you did was take one mods time frame and run with it. Thats why me and another mod talked. I took his advice and we gave you the one time pass. My suggsstion is to not run with tht either. I never said 2 hrs..3hrs etc. You want to be difficult, i unserstand, but it osmt helping your case any. It only solidifies why we need mods as opposed to letting you guys police yourselves

Do you not agree that there is supposed to be a consistent expectation? The sad part is there was never a problem until your group decides they need to get their hands dirty.


If i am not co-ordinating for a kill... and i take out someone within the confines of the rules of the game.... i should not be deleted... period. End of story


This is where the argument stands.... unless there is evidence otherwise or a fair complaint... it should be ignored. The old saying goes.... if it ain't broken, don't fix it.


This circus is being caused by too much interference by the mods...... that is my argument. You guys don't like something, you use some vague clause or make an excuse for the deletion. That is my problem. Last time i checked warring and net gaining is part of the game... is it not?

And its not broke. I have yet to see this situation reported. I replied to riddler and explained what i would have deleted for and that his situation was fine.

Its only a hot topic issue because you guys are beating this one scenario to death.

These grey area rules exist because people dont know how to not abuse the game and mechanics

And you still didn't answer my question...

What part of the rules did i break supposedly that would warrant deletion?

Or we can play the politician vs media game... where the politician answers the question with other facts and questions to avoid it



And I'm being difficult because I know I have a reason to believe I am right here.... and i'm going to fight for fair modding of the rules... instead of heresay

As a player, i would imagine there are more efficient areas that you guys need to lobby for

Bonuses are pointless for express. No real good amnt of time to rack any worth while bonus up besides free gdi


People abusing the bots.

Etc..

DR abuse. Thats an everyday occurence.

Instead you guys are pin pointing one aspect that hasnt come up much that ive seen.

Grey area rules should not exist.... maybe the rule book needs more detail and work so then not only is the expectation clear to everyone... then you have rules to quote for deletion. Because honestly, I see alot of hot air in these arguments with nothing solid to back it up.


2 things need to be done:

List of issues and general consenus of players how they feel

Updated rules to reflect that town house discussion


Then no more scketchy area.... easy modding with rules to back it up... if it isnt there... then how can you have the right to delete on an impulse?

Those are issues too.... but again you are moving the topic away from my point and question. I am going to stick this issue right to the forefront until the mods realize that they need to lay off a little or the rules get updated.

Sorry... but it is what it is


And a town hall forum should include those topics too 100%

That would probably hurt players more then help. Having set in stone rules...

As they exist we currently have wiggle room to not delete for grey area mishaps.

There no way around it, unless the game was completely re vamped and re done, grey area rules will exist

Heres the ruling for solo server play by the head mod




In the case of a grey area (like dr abuse or other things) we reserve the right to make judgement.

It is what it is. Until the rules change, i wont waiver from them.

I won't waiver from my position too.... since that is a load of fluff to hide behind.


What a sorry excuse of a clause to hide behind.... so going to use a clause to delete someone who is not breaking the rules... how cute

Ok back on topic.

GDI Country kill runs should never be an issue without clear collusion(ie msgs) since the defender would need to break GDI.

Non GDI vs Non GDI is where issues can arise and I think the issue most posters above have with grey area is how it has been utilized in the past. My sentiments is far too often mods have preemptively punished players with no evidence. As Netquash has stated attack timing should not be enough to ban. I don't know how much you can check besides news feed and in game messages but take the time to do at least a cursory search. Finally if no supporting evidence besides attack timing/leeching is found let it be. Suspicious players could still be flagged/watched for a determined time period and banned on repeat.

Sometime last year I was playing tourney A wrecking someone who had farmed me earlier. Bibigon nuked him and I got purpled which also set me back a full reset since I had to restart outside A. Just an example of a ban based on a quick reaction to simply the news feed there are others.

In the big picture grey is necessary but mods need to use it less imo

sounds like bstrong still hasn't got his head checked

We dont use it often. Thats the thing. A big hog wash over nothing.

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Even with all that being said. People still get killed solo, unprovoked with no coordination. All the implements made to stop people from leaving the game from unprovoked killing is still happening in a "legal" manner....

I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't want to see killing squads running wild on express, I have lived the experience and have come to love the current state of express. I usually see deletion happen in appropriate situations. Then again mod abuse is not what is in question. Its rules and rules violations.

Everyone is all bent up on this cherry picking.... or the grey line between it and coordination... that being said, it should just be stated that cherry picking in express is seen as an act of coordination. In the end it is, your finishing someone else's job.... so there, a means of removing this grey area...(probably not what the killers/cherry pickers want to hear...) a grey area which is fairly irrelevant to any serious players who actually know what they are trying to do with their country.

I generally play all X and always go GDI. It does not destroy my gaming experience in the slightest... in all truth I could care less if people are cherry picking non gdi noobs/warmongers..

^^^

Someone who gets it

celphi, qz has seen the thread and has asked for Mod opinions on how to deal with said situation.


what net doesn't want to accept that there is only 2 options that is acceptable in regard to a solo server.

complete ban on Cherry picking or a time frame where destructive spying and attacking after someone elses run isn't allowed.

Well then ban it and be done with the subject, no grey areas.

Bstrong isn't the only mod around here. If you don't want to have a mature discussion with him, you don't have to. But please feel free to talk to me or the other mods so we can make improvements without intentionally trying to destroy the system.

The crux of this issue is that it's hard to prove if something is coordination or not. Cherry picking is really hard to prove that it's NOT coordination, and I have consistently stated that it's not allowed here. That has been the case for the entire year and a half I've been missing here.

And yeah, we've been talking this over with Qz on he mod board. With these types of situations, he typically defers to us mods to hash it out before implementing changes. As I said before, I really think gdi should be opted in from the start given the nature of this server.

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I dont think cherry picking will ever be allowed, even if a few people vote for it. It takes away from the goal of a solo server and thats to not have any team play whether it is intentional or not. We are always looking to improve with out taking away from the intention of specific servers.

Nuke racks ups like 30kills in alliance every set from easy to kill to cherry picking. Its the nature of the server that allows that. If We allow unintentional coordination, what next? Actual coordination of non gdi countries?


Then my next concern would be the opt in option for GDI. Would we follow current gdi rules or do we use tourney style gdi. Since everyone is opted in automatically. Does the lg window get bigger or smaller, such as 2x, 4x etc. Will it cost anything? Will bonus points make it free still?
Will the range in how high and low you hit be affected, since eveyryone will be gdi.

Why would we allow cherry picking? Because it's fun? As bstrong said, you can do that on other servers and not have an issue with being deleted.

It 'may' be fun to try the wild west approach where everything goes if you leave gdi, but we need to change it to opt-in first. Until then, quit trying to force us to change by violating the rules. You all know how long it takes to get changes implemented, so cool it please.



I don't think we need to change how gdi works on this server, since the vast majority of people opt in automatically at the start of the set. Those that don't usually fall into 3 categories:

1) Those who want to prey on other non-gdi countries(Lookin at you, gondorff).
2) Those that made a mistake and forgot to join.
3) New players who don't know the importance of gdi.

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The thing is the rule is hardly worth changing.

I don't consider you base your personal play on obtaining CPs :p

If people want to rack up their kills they should play FFA or something.

Edit

Also, I personally think CPing is weak in its own. Let people fight their own fights and don't go being a poon trying to snipe.

Unless it has some deep personal merit, which is worth the chance of deletion or other actions, just don't do it....

If the goal of the ending score formulated NW,kills,attacks,defends etc for a finished product then sure. I wouldnt see a problem with CPing. But until then, the goal is to finish with the highest nw. I dont really see how CPing helps your NW in the current state.

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ty exactly celphi


and yes telli i don't need to talk to the grade 12 educated mod. Egotistical fluffball that he is ...... i have no time for that crap.

Celpho, yes. The entire goal of this game is to finish with the highest NW. Thats why, 100% of the time the winner is the one with highest NW. All those other things, are stats. Not the main goal of the game. I would love too see several factors in what the finish product is. It would liven things up alot. Will it happen? Probably not. Which is cool too. People can play to still war, there are plenty of non gdi countries that one can solo kill with out interfering with anothers war or kill and not bending/breaking the rules.

You guys also forget there is a second side to every story. What about the person you killed? They just had the war disrupted. They watched there opposition spend all their turns andfail at a kill. Thats the striking time for them. So tell us how that is fair to that person? You guys are so fucused one group(warrers) that there is a second and a third and a fourth.

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I agree, and I'm sure qz and the gang will work with us, we just need to keep our kool and in the end everyone has to compromise :-)

It's not instantaneous. True, I don't know the code(or even how to change it), but in general, the code for this game is very very old and was adapted from an even older source. Making big changes is not as easy as you think.

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I'm not trying to be an ass, but you don't know exactly what you're talking about. Or you don't understand what I'm saying.

CP is a rules change, yes. But so far, none of the moderation team want to change that. I think everything you guys have said warrants further discussion, and we ARE discussing it, but that will not be changed until we all agree to change it.

My comment was in reference to making gdi opt-out instead of opt-in. THAT will take some time to change. It may be an easy fix, it may be more difficult. Qz will get to it when he can.

Other changes are pretty critical, but also incredibly tough to do given the way the game is coded. All the modding tools, for example, are hard-coded and difficult to change. We mods are hamstrung in a lot of ways, and a lot of checking can only be done by admins. But again, it's 5 year old code based on 10 year old code, with all sorts of different systems trying to work together :/

I'm not trying to be an ass, but.....



What the moderators group has done to earth successfully:

Alienated and lost one dedicated player.



Might come back if an apology is made to me. But the betting man in me says 100:1 bet has a better chance of hitting.


Peace out dying game. :/

How have we alienated you? I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about.

you are all high horse about everything yet let your novice mod mouth off

I just came back to see if even a PM was sent to me to ask.... what is the deal? Nope not even one

Go fluff yourselves..... you waste of skins..... you truly care only about your egos... and the truth is exposed.


I will NEVER dedicate any time to a game where a bunch of hitlers enforce the game... sorry gfy... sorry not sorry, etc

Either fix the game, or be consistent in your enforcement of the rules... again gfy's