FYI

they farmed us and then GS'd their attacker.

so we set those 2 as kill targets, and then imag started killing us after that, so we're in a full state of war at the moment

this is what i get while trying to reason with soviet:

01[20:24] <llaar> after this set can we please at least pact or something
01[20:24] <llaar> i dont want this in the future
01[20:24] <llaar> i understand this set is definitely messy :P
[20:24] <Soviet> but
[20:24] <Soviet> thats would ruin my plans to destroy NA as a clan
01[20:24] <llaar> ah come on buddy
01[20:24] <llaar> games shrinking enough as it is
[20:25] <Soviet> so?
[20:25] <Soviet> imag is blamed for the shrinking, may as well live up to the hype :)
01[20:25] <llaar> ive never blamed ya
01[20:25] <llaar> theres a ton of factors
[20:25] <Soviet> you wouldnt matter
01[20:25] <llaar> no single person or clan is responsible
[20:25] <Soviet> to the rest of 1a it would
01[20:26] <llaar> huh?
[20:26] <Soviet> 1a community blames imag for earths decline
[20:26] <Soviet> imag fses NA until they disband
[20:26] <Soviet> 1a community satisfied they were right
[20:27] <Soviet> imag lives up to hype
[20:27] <Soviet> everyone wins


i've played this game for 10 odd years, daily. the current state of political affairs is just sad. this isn't what this game should be about.

If Imag leaders could provide their point of view that would be great, but that looks fairly bad.

Oh god no not a war!

See you next set llaar!

I am holding on to my gold stars!

no wonder this game is dying :(

It was a legitimate exchange of landgrabs and retals; Politics lead to war.

If what you have wrote is a direct reflection of your conversation with Soviet; I would have to ask... What's a game without a little trashtalk? You're an adult; I assume. Take it in stride. You're attempting to gain public sympathy, because you're not satisfied with the conditions. This would be similar to a sports team releasing a statement at halftime requesting that someone intervene, because they're a 2nd rate team facing a significant loss...

If I where playing WoW, and I messaged a GM, "I am sick of so-and-so killing me." He would ban --ME-- for wasting his time. You know why? Because, it is a dynamic built into the game. AND, furthermore... Unless Soviet is --harassing-- you in-game(as in the built in messaging system); administrative intervention(it's obvious you're trying to gain favor) should --NOT-- even be CONSIDERED in my opinion.

If this game was meant to only netgain -- to test your skills at following the same set of instructions over and over, then -attacking- would not be am integrated feature. If that's what you want go live in 1984, man. ya dig?

tldr; man up. stop whining. handle your business. it's a game.

-Reptile

I wouldn't call it farming llaar, just aggressive land exchanging ;)

iMAg are not at war with NA! :P

From what I heard this started with NA denying Imag reps for a suicider and not whats been posted above

ummm they hit us and then GS'd the attacker

we set those 2 as kill targets

you can check the news of those first two countries if you wish

the news doesn't lie

finally the truth comes out- i am NOT to blame for Earths decline. It was all Imag's fault.

usually doing something which prevents someone grabbed from getting there land back is poor form

i havnt checked to see if thats what happened though so perhaps imagnum felt the grabs were retalled and wanted to prevent a retaliator being farmed

Imag retaled after NA RoR'd then put our retaler into DR.

<3 iMag !

Isnt posting private convos considered bad manners?

You're a bad manner.

maybe soviet has a bad way of expressing himself.
but you DO deserve to be killed over and over again :)

can you count how many hours i spent in your chatroom waiting for you guys to figure out what to do with the repeated suiciders over the past sets?

you do it frequently several times / set and when we do it once is bad? and no, it wasn't asked by leadership, the member did it on his own, the member who GSed him did not know why he was doing it and he was announced not to do it again. and we did talk about it and gave you alot back.

i don't think it was the start of this set's incident tho.

Soviet is retarded.

Alright since we're putting this all in the air might as well toss my 2 cents in.

I am Crystal Meth Polar Bear (#666). One of the two countries you decided to kill. The other country was Soviet's are beloved clan president.

Now this farming you speak of well that is a matter of interpretation. The most "farming" i did was failing 2 planned strikes on the *only* landgrab non retal i made all set. The reason i failed 2 times was a simple matter of me double clicking the attack button. For that and miscalculating the break i am fail. we can all agree on this.

Since we're putting everyone on blast here lets check the ol ingame message box.

on a spy op for the first retal.

Message from Bullets and Octane (#604) sent on 01/03/2011 08:22:03
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why'd you spy on me?

btw, I could FA you for land if you want a deal ? :) (lots of acres from ghost returns) Reply

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arrogance aside its understandable. next message after a succesful retal:

Message from Bullets and Octane (#604) sent on 01/05/2011 11:34:21
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idiot :) Reply

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The next communication i recieved from NA some time (9 days later)

Message from United AbomiNAtions (#65) sent on 01/14/2011 01:16:31
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I am sure, based on your recent activity, you are probably owed a retal by us. That WAS NOT it.

-Rattlehead Reply

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Now this next one is going to be important. to qoute llaar "they farmed us and then GS'd their attacker. " read it carefully.
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Message from United AbomiNAtions (#65) sent on 01/15/2011 05:26:32
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Walt, that is why NA is starting to farm iMag so much. You guys have to realize that at some point we aren't going to be friendly anymore when our countries are (almost universally) fatter than yours and we will lose more acres than you to traditional grabbing. You think we will just let it stand at that?

Think again... Reply

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To say that we instigated the farming well ^ theres your sign.

Now if the fact that i only took retals is open to interpretation here is the next correspondence between NA and myself.:

Message from United AbomiNAtions (#65) sent on 01/15/2011 22:44:51
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Haha, I noticed all your land came from NA. Lots of iMag land right now was NA's at one time. ;P Reply

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Key phrase being "all your land came from NA." other then what i explored this is 100% true.

Now that everyone is up to speed lets get to the "farming" i did. As i mentioned earlier i am responsible on for a double tap on the only LG i did all set and failed both.

This next message is from the country i failed on after his 2nd of 3 available retals on my country. in reply to me telling him something to the effect of "i double clicked the attack button"

In all fairness of truth and discrepancy yes i was in DR at this time. Soviet Union (#730) Soviet's country had put me there. This is how we choose to run our alliance you are free to run yours however you feel as well. Within the confines of the server rules.

Message from Ewok Village 5000 (#527) sent on 01/18/2011 20:05:51
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lol I oversent like a mother anyway, I'll see how much I get on the 2nd that prob won't hit you a third time if it was an honest mistake Reply

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it was an honest mistake. For the record Every country from NA i've talked to ingame has been very tactful and polite. A little trash talking is fun and all the correspondence i had with NA throughout this entire affair i've enjoyed very much as part of my game experience.

This next message pertains to me asking wheather big dealers hit was going to count as one of his retals.

"2011-01-18 15:14:27 PS Big Dealers (#596) xNAx Crystal Meth Polar Bear (#666) iMagNum 313A (348A)"

Message from Ewok Village 5000 (#527) sent on 01/18/2011 20:13:13
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yeah that must have been random I didn't tell anyone to take my retals. I'm good with those 2 hits it was a mistake, just leave me alone for the rest of the set will ya? :) Reply

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At this point I send a message saying something to the effect I would be happy to leave him alone and since he is being so fair about it i offer to come outta DR and let him get a full hit on me.

Message from Ewok Village 5000 (#527) sent on 01/18/2011 20:16:54
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cool thanks, can't say the same for your boy

WeeZy2 (#777) (iMagNum)

looks like hes going on a rampage Reply

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Now these messages are in a tight timeline so here's the next.:

Message from Ewok Village 5000 (#527) sent on 01/18/2011 21:00:31
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didn't notice the self GSing til now, I might take that 3rd retal when DRs are out that's kind of a fluff move... Reply

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That was the last in-game communication i have with NA before they set me and soviet as kill targets.

Now as for Llaar here is what i have to say to you. You can blast sov for being unreasonable and you can blast imag for being crazy. We don't like you you don't like us. So what if our goal is the destruction of everything. Don't come here to rally the troops of the alliance forum to jeer and hate imag im pretty sure there opinions are made up one way or the other . you made a decision to set me and sov as kill targets. imagnum did not bamboozle you you were well aware that soviets country was Soviet Union (#730) and he is the president of imag. You decided to kill him and me. Now if you didn't see where the chips would fall after that then you are as they say "ate up with dumb-ss and you can't fix stupid"

I would like to restate that every country from NA i've talked to ingame has been very tactful and polite. I've enjoyed it and good luck guys. Also find some other idiot besides Llaar to be in charge or at least put a muzzle on him.

Walt Hunt
8 letters 2 words 1 man!

OK, this "farming" stems from this:
Hit:
01/08/2011 02:26:42 GT Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) PS 2,644 Acres (+1246)
Retal: (mind you, NA enforces 1:1 esc retal policy)
01/10/2011 03:38:15 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) PS 2,083 Acres (+1088)
01/10/2011 03:37:42 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) PS Defended

Clear Overretal? I'd say yes.

Our 2:1 Retals for the Overretal:
01/10/2011 21:13:24 GT Soviet Union (#730) (iMagNum) KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) PS 1,451 Acres (+585)
01/10/2011 21:11:52 GT Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) PS 2,791 Acres (+1120)

Then this happens:
01/10/2011 23:45:04 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Soviet Union (#730) (iMagNum) BR 4,485 Civs / 309 Blds
01/10/2011 23:45:01 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Soviet Union (#730) (iMagNum) BR 4,642 Civs / 318 Blds
01/10/2011 23:44:57 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Soviet Union (#730) (iMagNum) BR 4,800 Civs / 325 Blds
+16 more BRs + 3 CMs
and;
01/10/2011 23:48:01 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) GS 8,936 Civs / 189,151 Food
01/10/2011 23:47:58 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) GS 9,300 Civs / 200,514 Food
01/10/2011 23:47:55 GT KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) Sifos (#760) (iMagNum) GS 9,678 Civs / 212,590 Food
+25 more GSs

A CLEARLY butthurt member that screwed up and didn't like the LEGIT punishment.

The overretal and subsequent "suicide" on us isn't the problem. The problem is Rattlenoob giving me the options of
1) Kill #137 with NA's help
2) Get Reps

Well of course #137 is going to die either way, and I'm not going to be bought off so he can live. He screwed up by overretaling and then suiciding.

That said, #137 died.
01/11/2011 21:34:51 GT hey makinso LOLUMAD (#767) (iMagNum) KSFisWIN (#137) (xNAx) CM 17 Civs / 11 Blds Kill

All without NAs assistance in form of FA or hits otherwise. Weird.

OK so I go back to Rattlenoob telling him the dude's dead and NA didn't help one bit. I ask him for reps, because after all, I did get BR'd of 50 CS and 5k acres. And hey, iMag just spent 700 turns killing the guy. He denies me based on the fact "iMag is hitting NA too often". I try again. No avail.

Two can play this game. :)

To be fair, before this instance I tried to get iMaggers to lay off NA to cut down on the 72 hour hits. After the denial of reps, who cares, I'll even join in on the fun (before I tired to stay out of it). The fault was theirs and they were not owning up to it.

Fast forward to #666. No much to say other then yeah, I did GS him into DR for laughs. Was quite funny watching NA take their 3 retals for 300a/hit. Hell, they could have waited 24 hours but yeah, funny stuff.

NA set me and #666 as kill targets without my consent. Do not like. We matched their hits with hits of our own. Fair trade, I believe.

Fun Facts!

Side A Att Def HPM HPD Kills HPK
iMagNum 2,903 2,704 85 726 9 323
Totals: 2,903 2,704 85 726 9 323

Side B Att Def HPM HPD Kills HPK
xNAx 2,704 2,903 68 676 2 1352
Totals: 2,704 2,903 68 676 2 1352

OMG THERE IS A WAR. THE GAME WILL SELF DESTRUCT.

*runs to bomb shelter*

Heh. Vic isn't a very good.FA. :P

Here's how this looks to me (and outsider who likes iMagNum):

1. iMagNum was in a position to get the better of standard land exchanges with NA... they took advantage of this position and made their LGs.

2. NA got tired of this and tried to intimidate iMagNum by being more aggressive in their retal policies (fair enough, it's part of the game dynamic. Though, you have to be pretty thick to try this with iMagNum when you want to net).

3. A couple iMagNum members decided that they didn't want to be pushed around and dealt directly with NA.

4. NA tried to kill those members.

5. iMagNum defended its members.

6. NA declared war.

Personally, I see standard server politics escalating to a war. This wasn't a random FS by iMagNum, it was NA thinking that it could push around the alliance that has proven most often that it will not be pushed around. Dumb as dirt does not gain any sympathy from me.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

therein lies the issue

we were dealing with the retals as cordially as possible

then, your PRESIDENT, goes and GS's you after you make attacks to put your country in DR

see, if one of my members grabbed imag, and then *I* went and GS'd that guys country... how would you guys feel?

it was a direct "fluff YOU" to our clan, and you know it. that is why they were set to kill targets

And denying reps was a big "fluff YOU" to our clan.

:)

TAN, I have to point out again, only you and iMag have a hard time with me. I get along great with everyone else. Given the total lack of ability to follow logic you and Detmer and Soviet display, it is no wonder you guys are on the same side.

Of course I denied FA to iMag. They were topfeeding us like crazy, they do it just about every set. We are not, and to the best of my knowledge never have been pacted, so why would I reward them for continuing to screw with us? That fails all smell tests. Behavior that is rewarded is repeated. I especially don't cave in to someone telling me they will FS me maybe now, maybe next set, maybe in ten sets if I don't FA him right now.

As far as the GSing thing: the first FA contact I ever had with iMag was over them topfeeding us and then GSing the country, back in August. This is a repeated pattern of behavior. I did not authorize any kills (except iMag's kill on a NA member) this set, my last interaction with iMag was to tell Soviet I was setting #777 to farm for quadtapping an NA country and then hitting another NA country within a few minutes. Most alliances would make that country a kill target, I told Soviet he would only be a kill target if he then RoRd.

I spent literally about 3.5 hrs talking to Soviet on ICQ about the member of ours that they killed. I tried to offer creative solutions. I indicated I would be open to NA participation in the KR, I tried to find a mutually beneficial way to end our hostility. Soviet said, basically, no he'd rather keep things as they were, because iMag comes out ahead on land this way. So he is incentivized to keep topfeeding us, basically. So I made it my business to reduce the incentive, by the book, and the resorted to the GS DR trick.

iMag has been hostile to NA as far as my memory stretches. Since I've been an FA they have consistently been the most "in our news" alliance, and are consistently massive pains in the ass to deal with. I don't think anyone is surprised by this boiling over. I wish it would have waited until our netting set was over. Again, I didn't auth those kills, someone else who is sick of their BS did that, but I didn't know about the situation until the decision had been made. I probably would have done the same thing.

Regardless, I wasn't trying to air my grievances publically until this thread turned into "airing of grievances for festivus" but there you go.

You missed the boat Vic. The point is, you denied giving reps when you were CLEARLY in the wrong. Not a good thing to do given our track record. Had you simply gave the reps (I was thinking in the neighborhood of $600m) I most certainly would have at least lessened the hits on NA, if not stop them entirely. But no, you chose the wrong option and here we are, 10 NA dead and a wasted netting set.

I'd also like to point out this happens EVERY set. NA just can't seem to control themselves when it comes to retals/suiciding.

yea. u really need to get a better grip on your members. can you count the suiciders gone berserk on us over the past sets?

IMAGNUM DECLARES PERPETUAL WAR ON NETTERS ANONYMOUS!!

NETTERS ANONYMOUS RESPONDS BY CREATING A THREAD ON AT ABOUT IT!!

I respond to your flame by FARTING IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!

Llaar, all I want to know is this:

With your reset after reset of fluffing, cheating to make top scores (you're not the only one, I know), and backdoor politics to make yourself look like a victim, who the fluff are you to cry and whine about the demise of the game?

You're just as responsible for the downfall of this game as anyone else is.

If you think that you are going to enforce your agenda and policies, then you need to back them up. Quit fluffing crying, and get over it.

Whiny ass fluff

NukEvil - if there was a like button for your last post, I'd press it!

Vic, you aren't a very good FA. Just admit it. You're probably the worst FA NA has had. I will admit I never got along with Bug and I heavily criticized his ability to do FA. Ask Ford about this to confirm. But I have to give credit where credit is due. Bug was a much better FA than you.

Other NA FAs, including me while I was there, were at least a bit accommodating. You in contrast are a tight ass that doesn't know how to speak diplomatically.

Yeah I've been a fluff before - especially to LaF - but you always huff and puff and end up making the wrong decision time and time again.

You can still be tough, get what you want and not plunge your alliance into war, but you don't seem able to do that. It's your JOB to keep your alliance out of war, not act macho and run a KR when you damn well know it'll end up as war.

You should have protected your netting set by accommodating iMag, not antagonizing them.

I typed all this from my damn phone which is a pain in the ass so you know this is the truth.

Exactly what I've been thinking

Umm... iMag goes out of its way to enforce ridiculous policies, often contradictory ones to start fights with netting clans. I don't agree with NA's past actions but they haven't done any of that recently and if this was about that why not RD?

Well Sov, that would make the answer to your question a no. You oughta know better, mate.


llaarpies - hit me up. Gonna need some help from ya with the usual problem :-)

i see escalating conflicts between two alliances leading to war.

let's move along kiddies

Dissapointing

What is?

imag and NA slapfighting pretty much every single set

<3

Go edit the wiki or something :P

I'll wiki YOUR edit!

Sof should make imag the 3rd clan in their war

i don't get this logic

also, who was saying imag is ruining the server?

of all the alliances out there ruining the server, imag has done much less than a handful of both netting and war focused alliances, IMO

Pang,

http://forums.earthempires.com/...ns-of-liberty-declare-war

The whole thread is full of it, not just the first post. Then theres the LCN and Fist inspired threads that go back a bit more.

Were there any incidents before the na guy retalled twice?

And I thought c:c 1:1 retal policy by na was rescinded as a 1 set trial.

ok, but I still don't get why you're targeting NA perpetually, unless there is more than llaar's post is letting on

it's cool to have issues with NA and it can escalate to war, but it's pretty lame to decide to try and make NA leave the game because you're mad about things SoL, LCN and The Fist said, and NA was the first alliance to have an issue with you "after" that.

I was just joking when I said I'd kill NA as a clan. :)

Of course llaar seems to have no sense of humor (or honor).

fixed that for you.

also, you may have wanted to clear that up earlier, since tavi's post seemed to sort of align with the llaar log

also, I agree with tavi -- NA is absolutely horrible to do FA with, and have been for several years. they never make things right, and as netters they haven't gotten killed for it near as much as they should have. (IMO, of course -- if you want to net, you have to at least play ball. not hit the ball into the woods and run home)

so if that is indeed the reason, then good luck to imag in this single-reset war :)
trying to run ppl from the server/game sucks, and I say that as someone whose alliance has been targeted as one to "run from the game" a couple of times

No, it was correct the first time. Thanks for the thought though.


I realize you're just trying to troll iMag, and you haven't gotten much love from me lately but I do want to point out that they didn't follow THEIR OWN policy in the retal. Also don't know what you're talking about these "ridiculous policies" we enforce, iirc it's just standard 1:1 esc until you piss me off.


No incidents, just LGs that were exchanged. And you are correct, c:c 1:1 policy pertained to last set, but this set they're back to the old 1:1 alliance:country policy.