the admins already said that its not against the rules and that its part of this servers dynamic.

Because self-farming was not part of the original spirit of the game.

what Rico said.

Neither was coalitions, server-wide wars or gangbangs... but they all happened. And everyone lived with it.

And this isn't Earth: 2025.

And nobody was suspended for any of those.



Who said it was or are you just trolling?

Oh Lord. We beat the dead horse yet again.

It's simple math, kids. The days are gone where 2 or 3 dudes were running bots and pumped the server with 30K countries.

In those days, there were plenty of targets and as long as you didn't grab TOO stupidly, you could be fat and well fed doing grabs.

In THESE days, there's about 1/10 of the available targets, yet some people still think it's a bad thing if someone self farms a little. Or a lot.

My recommendation to anyone is don't whine about self farmers and just do the best you can however you can without self farming.

While it's highly unlikely you will ever win FFA without self farming, or FA chains, or clan supported buyouts, or your clan literally eliminating your competition, or...... (you get the idea)people notice when a player does All-X or a combination of All-X and grabbing and places in the top 50 or better.

Far as I'm concerned, a player who doesn't self farm and makes the top 25 or 50 is the better player and any player over about 30K acres isn't in the same category as they have either self farmed or farmed others.

That's why I'd like to see a 35K acre land cap. It levels the playing field.

a land cap I do agree on. then you will really see who can play this game and who can't without having a bazillion acres :-P

then it will just be who can get to 35k acres the fastest. the people who are better at it will still do better than everyone else.

lol that is the entire purpose of the game, getting land to increase your production and finish better. That is where most of the dynacism of the game comes from, land grabbing. If you put everybody on 10k acres to start there is very little room to manuver and all the good players would end up at about the same NW.

Hitting your own countries isn't against the rules. Capping land is a bad idea for a number of reasons.

Yup. Because you no longer will have an advantage over those that choose not to self farm. Since there are alot of us that still feel as though it goes against the ideas of the game.

then the people who choose to grab have an advantage over people that choose to go all-x,

so should grabbing be banned as well??

Okay Warster lets go your route, since you obviously believe this game is not a war game. Or are atleast trying to change it from being a war game.


If your going to fluff this game over, do it right. So people like me and the other war guys can go play another fluffing game where we can actually beat someones face in like the game was designed for. Because I am personally sick of "Game Moderators" telling me that I am "Driving" players from the game, because I attack someone. If you don't want me to attack someone, get rid of the fluffing Troops, Jets, and Tanks.


But of course, I am wrong. I hear it all the time from you "Game Moderators". Why don't you do us all a favor, and change the game to what you really want. A Game without military. A Game without attacking. A Game without Wars. I'll help you out and provide some free suggestions...

Instead of training Troops, change it to Scientists.
Instead of training Jets, change it to Politicians.
Instead of training Turrets, change it to Economists.
Instead of training Tanks, change it to Librarians.
Instead of training Spys, change it to Diplomats.




There we go. We no longer have military, so us War Guys can stop saying Earth Empires is a War Game.



And Don't start with me about Self Farming, all-x, or grabbing. Your mind is set on what you want this game to be, and not what this game really is. If you want a game without wars, without grabs, without military, so you can gain NW and be the best strategist, Make a NEW GAME. And Stop fluffing up this one. This game has military for a reason. So we can smash each other in with it.


In Response to your retarded comment:

"then the people who choose to grab have an advantage over people that choose to go all-x, so should grabbing be banned as well??"


Of course the grabbers have an Advantage. Because they are playing the game how it was meant to be played. Attacking other players.

If you hit anything to quickly over an extended period of time the country you were running when you did it would become suspended. It had nothing to do with hitting your own countries in ffa because nobody would be stupid enough to hit their own country 30 times in a little under 10 seconds.

That was simply implimented as a defense against script hitting, which failed miserably apparently with all the bots people ran.

This whole self farming bullfluff is kind of retarded if you ask me, back when there was 30,000+ countries in FFA people still had their own farms, why is it such a bother now? because theres all of 3,000 countries in the server. Otherwise you wouldn't notice, and you wouldn't be fluffing.

shows that you know NOTHING smurf

i generally dont self farm at all ( i'm playing 2 countries hitting each other just so i can see what its like self farming as i havent done it before)

i'm the main war/retal person in TKO, in the 6 resets of EE FFA so far i've fought in 3 wars


just like i tell Lincoln in Express, people have the right to play their countries whatever way they choose as long as its within the rules,

Self farming is within the rules,

You claim that self farmers have an unfair advantage, you claim this, this is the whole point of your stupid arguement

yet i point out that Grabbing gives a player a unfair advantage over all-x players and you get in your panties in a knot


how is it any different??

what if i grab a fellow alliance mate??? by what you said this would be ok as you want people attacking other players

"Of course the grabbers have an Advantage. Because they are playing the game how it was meant to be played. Attacking other players."


thats YOUR opinion, nowhere does it state that the game has to be played that way, no rules stating you have to play that way

now to your stupid claim that this is a war game
this is incorrect, warring is just one side of it,

Netters are just as important to the game as war people

my problem with you is that you think that people have to play YOUR way, and thats not right, the whole point of the game is to give people the option to do other things outside warring, since not everyone has the time to war, mainly for FFA anyway

well thats pretty much pwned him.

nice post warster. warring has probably taken me away from ffa as a time issue however i do enjoy warring in alliance. but when u fs a netting clan. all those people who put time and effot in will become disillusioned with some half arsed clan that runs crap countries killing theres.

im looking at clans which always have low avg land such as imp,nbk,swords who dont have the skill to hit the explore buttom and just topfeed others with the excuse of if they cant defend it they cant have it, which frankly is retarded as with all attacker bonuses and techs and govt bonus in a best case scenario with 2m jets you could break 8-10m.

id suggust netters are more important to the game. there is more of them across the other servers. look at ffa. nbk imp and swords bss and cervesi make up 1000 of the countries but never hit each other. so annoy the other 1000. which will lead to a smaller player base as people give up. such as sanct ffa, KA this set and myself included.
However without the netters you will not have any driving force in the markets. hardly any techs and no depth

also

Actually DeDLySMuRF you were the one who said he was going to drive players from the game:



Anyway the reasons I don't like a land cap are because some strats are designed to do well with less acres. Farmers need more than 35k acres to be able to compete with 35k techers, for example. In addition, countries at 35k acres who are grabbed would almost certainly lose out. At best the country ends up with 35k acres again, minus all of the buildings, resources, and military he lost. At worst he ends up with less land.

Believe it or not every single gameplay decision does not resolve around your pet issue.

Anyway, I thought I had already made my feelings about this server clear. No one objected to them at the time I posted them. Can anyone tell me what exactly is so wrong with what I said?

A land cap would give the game some balance. Don't like 35K? Make it 50 then.

But Slagpit, what is the point in playing this game to win it if you can't do so on a level playing field?

What do we gain as players if we all decide tomorrow to self farm and get huge countries with insane net worths? What does the game gain? If that's the direction you'd like to see them game go, then you need to divide it into netgaining and warring servers.

You know, I've played this game a very long time and seen its Evolution practically from its beginning.

If youdon't like the fact that 35K acre farmers can't compete with 35K acre Techers, then BALANCE it for cryin' out loud.

Win in what way? Who isn't playing on a level playing field?

Let's start from the basics: techers don't produce tech unless they dedicate turns to it and turns are a country's most valuable resource.

This means that techers have less flexibility when using turns, so they aim for lower landgoals than strategies which produce income every turn. Choosing how to play turns is an important part of the game that most players just gloss over because they've played for so long. I'm sure it's quite bewildering to new players.

You're asking me to make all strategies the same (maybe techers could produce tech every turn like indies) and to remove one of the most important ingame decisions once players hit some arbitrary land cap. After all, what choices do you have after you've reached the land cap? You tech if you're a techer, cash if you aren't converting, or do a mixture of cashing and building cs if you're going to convert.

i think self farming threads should be banned.

everything has been said on the issue from both sides. enough

Countries that benefit from buyouts also have an advantage. Should buyouts be banned?

Countries played by more skilled players have an advantage. Should skilled players be deleted for not sucking?

"Should buyouts be banned?"

Buyouts can easily be stopped by a single player, and it does interact with the market, and the community as a whole.

"Countries played by more skilled players have an advantage."

That has nothing to do with anything, confused why you are bringing this up at all. And countries run by skilled players do not have an advantage, they have the same opportunities as the ones run by less skilled players.

its funny that the top attacker in FFA as of now is in TKO and is as a result of him DRing himself all set.

Not if you do them right :-P

Not if you stop them right :P

TTT baby

some of you guys are like a broken record....


deal with it already.

I am done on the Self Farming subject...




All I asked in the other thread (Which I was quoted from), was for the Game Moderators to fix the DR system. I didn't say eliminate Self Farming. I suggested changing the DR time of failed attacks to change from 24hrs, down to 6hrs.


I of course never recieved any unbiased response back. Everything that was said was in defense of Self Farming.



I still have not heard one sensable response in that thread. FORGET SELF FARMING. That thread was about DR. Are you encouraging players to hit themselfs with failed attacks, instead of telling them to buy adaquate defense for there land?


If I see a country next set, with large amounts of land and putting himself into DR, with low military, I might just kill it. That goes for Self Farmers and Non Self Farmers alike. You guys have been forwarned. I am able to train troops/jets, and I am able to make GS/BR attacks. So I am not playing out of the rules of the game.


Or you can take a serious look at the DR system, and figure out a solution that would encourage those players to buy military to defend there land. Instead of putting themself into DR and running with little to no military.


That choice is yours. As Game Moderators. To either fix that issue, or deal with netters complaining/leaving in the future because people like me are killing there 30k+ acre countrys when they have 0 troops.



With that, I am done on this subject as well. Balls in your court.

guess you dont get that ONLY admins can change gameplay issues

also you didnt get an unbiased response because all ur figures were wrong

also the moment you threaten to do ANYTHING in game because the admins wont do as you want of course you werent going to get an unbiased response

+1 for lowering DR depth

im gonna self farm next set if i'm able to play, just to piss you off dedly

lol

It is not up to admins or moderators to do something. It is up to the players. We can either agree to something and be fine, or not agree and life goes on.

But asking admins to step in is sorta silly and not likely to happen, as they would have to pick sides.

You are biased because you exaggerated the problem and want to change the DR system to benefit your own tag.

You claimed in that thread that it was so easy to get 100k acres. Anyone can do it in 10 days! Yet FFA is 30 days into the set and exactly three (1 + 1 + 1) countries on the whole server have over 100k acres. How do you know how hard it is to self farm? Have you ever done it? Have those players told you exactly how much time they spend planning and playing?

I've seen the way your tag plays. You guys run a bunch of low land countries. You don't defend your land with military: your low land is your defense. I bet you're drooling at the thought of being able to topfeed the same country 12 times in a single day for maximum returns. In addition, the top self farming country has more than double your tag's TNW, but you're going to stomp your feet demanding that everyone but your tag needs to buy military and defend their land?

Here's an idea: since you apparently care so much about cooperation and want to make it more difficult to play, why don't we only allow one country per user to GS the same target? That'll make it harder for the self farmers because they can only use one country for GSing. It'll also force warrers to cooperate more because they won't be able to do solo kills. After all, obviously it's way too easy for a guy to kill countries when he can use all 16 to attack. We should force everyone to attend kill chats and work together, right?

The admins are willing to listen to ideas from players and make changes as necessary. I've admitted that I'm not a FFA expert. I've been very upfront about how I envision the server. I even quoted that statement in this thread. What exactly is wrong with what I said? No one has pointed that out to me yet.

I really hope that isn't a post aimed against me...
Before we warred SoF last set (our second netting set ever) I had the top 16 fattest countries that weren't self farmed. Inlcuding self farmed, I had 16 of the top 50 in the game.

And you know the game maths as well as I do slag, don't try to pretend otherwise. 500k acres, if build is equivalent to 40mil NW if built up on its own. If you count tech, and jets, your defense doesn't near match the ratio of anyone who is competing with you.

And as for how hard it is to self farm... I know all the maths for it, I realise how difficult it is, I stalked targets for over a week plotting when they are most likely to be offline, and out of dr. But the truth is, it is pretty damn easy.

If I cared as much I could self farm better then almost anyone, with better tag protection then anyone could ask for. But not worth it, it is too easy. The fact you try to make it sound difficult slag, takes a lil bit away from you.

Honestly if I was in a netting competition with someone who did that, I would kill that country 3 weeks before set ended, leaving my opposition with a ton of farms. This is ffa, you do what it takes to win, which is what you are saying. But putting all of your eggs in one basket is setting yourself up to lose a real competition.

wow these threads make my eyes bleed...

Man I bite everytime, if I were a fish I woulda been caught at the first spinnerbait I saw, let alone live bait...

/me Reels K4F in....

No, it was aimed at DeDLySMuRF.

If it's so easy, why don't more players do it?

I'm not really sure how I feel about something being "too easy". If you're netting, shouldn't the player with the most skill, the best plan, and a bare minimum of luck do well? How would you feel if I theorized that it's too easy for a player to kill with 16 countries? If I said that NBK hasn't had a legit war win because it's just so easy to play in ffa? That your wars aren't difficult enough? Are those fair things to say?

It's easy to purchase technology. You simply type in the amount you want. Does that mean that everyone is going to buy tech correctly? That players won't have different approaches? If we make it so you can only buy 1 tech point at a time, will that improve the playing experience just because it's harder to play?

The simple fact is that there is no amount of defense that will protect a 500k acre country that isn't in DR. This is for a number of reasons:

1) The 500k country will pay massive amounts in military maintenance trying to keep perfect defense day after day whereas the countries that wish to grab it don't need to keep massive amounts of jets every day.
2) It is difficult for a 500k country to get lots of weapons tech and it can't switch governments at will.
3) Other players will do whatever it takes with their 16 countries just to make one grab against it. If they get a 100k acre PS, they will be completely satisfied with their set.
4) Netgaining countries eventually need to stockpile resources. That is money that cannot be spent on defense. Bored topfeeders do not need to stockpile.

Because there is no amount of defense that will protect a 500k acre country, I imagine that the player responsible is putting it into DR. This is similar to how some warring clans feel about their countries. Obviously more land is good, but I guess they feel that if they get more land, their techs will be too low and they will be too easily killed off in war. So they run low land, which makes it difficult if not impossible for "other countries on the server to interact with them".

I don't know if that country is fully built. I'm not sure if it's even possible for a 500k acre country to be fully built this early into the set. If it really had no defense whatsoever, then it would be getting grabbed for thousands of acres. DR doesn't take landgains all the way down to 0.

There are various levels of self farming, llaar displayed the extreme.

Casual self farming I'm fine with. I never will, but if you don't like self farmers, kill their clan untill they stop, otherwise stfu and play your turns like a good little player.

I read bout half of what you said. But point stands, that any newb that kept their country into permanent DR has the capability of being in top 10 in the game no problem.

This is a good part of what unbalances FFA towards the netters. In other game types it takes skill, alliances, friends to be able to pull something like that off. In ffa, all it needs is time.

One can easily argue that FFA is intended for that sole purpose. Not gonna disagree with that, but it takes one important aspect away... Skill.
Maybe I just remember too much from before, where people were worried about being landgrabbed. Nowadays it is only a threat if you self farm, and if you self farm you DR yourself. And so on and so forth. Until you reach the point where you isolate yourself from everyone, run defenseless countries because it is more efficient.

You can say a lot of stuff, but most of it wouldnt be true in defense of DR self farming.

The one change that I think would benefit the game as a whole, is a country that has a higher offensive value, then defensive value, takes a penalty in landgrabs.
This would make it harder to retal, harder to landgrab, but more skill involved in both.
DR self farming needs to be reduced as well, I would say lower the DR cap of land to 50% of a normal grab. This would not affect 99% of players, but it would balance the playing field enough to stop whiners.

Again, if raw Offense>raw defense, give a penalty to landgrabs for the offensive party. This would fix most issues people have, and encourage making balanced countries.

theres a 500k acre country?

and you can't find a way to nab it while it's two-stepping?

Llaar threw up a few million acre country before he forced the mods to change ghost acre and DR rules

I was under the impression that there was exactly ten top 10 spots in the game. You didn't read half my post and you're declaring it wrong. Great.

I already addressed that argument. I can easily say that killing in ffa doesn't take skill because people have 16 countries to do it with. I can easily say that making a big topfeed doesn't take skill because players get one spy country and they just funnel resources towards four stockers. One low land country maxes weapons tech and mstrat and makes a big grab. How much skill is involved in that?

Clearly alliance takes more skill than ffa, because players need to go to irc to do killruns and work with each other.

Clearly solo servers take more skill than ffa, because players only have one country and they need to get spies, offense, defense, and decent production in it.

50% DR cap is insanity, untaggeds and one man tags would get farmed into oblivion.

is dedly still threatening to kill people over self farming after he just got stood stomped by a small tag?

it would be funny if he killed a TKO country and they just smashed on swords lol.

K4F you know my stance.

I think DRing ones country is cheap way of keeping your land. I dont do that. (well i did it for a few days in my 1 big country when it was starting to get big and couldnt afford defence) and i kinnda felt bad doing it.

I run good retallers. When grabs come they come. But i also udnerstand people put alot of effort into their countries and getting grabbed would be a big piss off. I dont put in enough effort to care! HAHA If someone wanted to grab him... without DR they would and theres nothing he can do about it. No way around it.

I also understand that some countriyes run 4-5k acres and grab 20k acre countries, sometimes all-x. The ammount of effor reqruired to do that is very little and its impossible to get anything back near the ammount grabbed.

TKOs stance is this:
Players in TKO can play their countries anyway they see fit, within the rules of Earth Empires, as long as it doesnt infringe on the gameplay for other players. IE: No farming people. No retalling retals. No suiciding. etc.

Why should swords dictate how we play? We play for fun. It might not be the same way swords does.

Swords misses a few key parts of earth empires.
1) Earth Empires is a STRATEGY based game more then a war game.
2) There are multiple ways to play. (Netgain, War, Wargain)
3) Diplomacy is one of the most fun aspects of this game.
4) Not everyone wants to restarts 500 times a set. Some want to play 5 minutes a day to keep in touch with those who they have gamed with for a long time. Why would anyone want to play earth ahead of a well developed game (WoW, xbox, psIII) if they want to play for 5 hours aday is beyond me. If you do thats your call. Thats not why i play. I play to keep in touch with those aroudn me.

If im reqruired to restart 500 times a reset, i wont play. If you only want warrers in FFA the palyerbase will be ALOT lower. How would your wars go with no netters to supply war techs for your restarts, no oil on market, etc?

Sure you can build oil rigs for your retsarts, but tech isnt that pheasible for restarts.

Im tired. Im sure this made next to no sense.

Point being: TKO FTW

Now... why don't you all get off of your fluffing soapboxes and just play the fluffing game?

lol

+1