I had so many troll responses to timmies thread and you closed it

MODS ARE FUN POLICE! DOWN WITH MODS!

I now love Martian, just because of his referencing Army of Darkness.

http://www.earthempires.com/...tch-off-date-33945#615819

If Pang had simply reinstated those two LaF countries without posting anything in the forums, the ant-LaF camp and the conspiracy theorists would have literally gone berserk. People look at the scores list. As long as the color purple exists there, there will be a public conversation about it, whether the mods participate in it, ignore it, or censure it.

While I'm on the subject, the reason why people like Cannon, Timmie, and countless others feel the need to post on the forums is because of how difficult it is to communicate with anyone. Nobody is told specifically what rule they violated that resulted in their deletion. They are then expected to privately message a moderator to initiate the appeals process. At least, that is how it works on some servers, but not every server, and the moderator you message may not actually moderate the server in question due to old titles still in use. And good luck getting anything done if the individual you message steps away for a day or two...

Let's get to the heart of the matter here:

You, and many others, have a very warped view of what you're owed by the admins and by the moderators.

They owe you nothing. You are here at the admins' pleasure; the game only exists because for whatever reason the admins liked the game and the community enough to re-code it, and re-host it. I doubt this is a serious money-making venture and wouldn't be surprised if EE operated at a loss.

Usually, with a game like this, the aim of the people who've designed and hosted it is to make money. Either players pay some sort of subscription fee, or serve ads, or find some other way to monetize their player base and in those cases, yes, the admins do owe a little to players because those players provide for the admins' livelihood.

That is absolutely not the case in EE.

Instead, we've got a game where the admins seem to actually like the game itself, and like (or maybe used to like) the community enough to want to provide a place for it to stay alive. There is no incentive for them to justify themselves or their actions to the community except because they feel they should; their conscience is the only thing that restricts them (and we should continually be thankful that the admins and mods are good people). However, there are practical limits to this: dealing with the game takes time, and there is more to life than EE. No one has quit their day job to run the game, and no one enjoys dealing with the malcontents on the forums.

The fairest thing given the incentives, time constraints, and idiocy on the forums is for the admins and mods to post only when it is absolutely essential and to remain out of view as much as possible. This lessens the burdens on the admins, lowers the expectations of the player base, and keeps things running as smoothly as possible.

We're owed nothing and generally, nothing is probably what we should get.

You're right. I'm the asshole here. I'm the one fluffing up this game for everyone else. The mods are the victims of my tyranny and oppression.

This is me doing everyone else a favor. I'm out.

--Viceroy
HAIL THE EMIRE!

Who the hell is the EMIRE Viceroy? Are you a secret agent from one of those towel head places? Did you eject from your fighter jet near Bagdahd at any time?

And to lighten things up, here is Secret Agent Man, by Johnny Rivers:

http://www.bing.com/...15EEE2E2396288EB7FD915EEE

The EMIRE is an old Monster legend, not unlike Don Mach's Head, Pez, or the fact that Lestat is a Genius. Unfortunately the backstory was lost ages ago, when the first dungeon crashed. Don't worry about it.

Oh Ok, that was way before my time. I'm not sure I want to dig any further into old Monster legends. Madness that way lies

note that martian didnt deny that he never replied to a PM

So if I invite you to my house for dinner I have no obligation to serve food you will eat? If I ask you to a movie I have no obligation to pick one you will like?

The act of asking us all to come play this version of the game - which the current admins campaigned very hard for - creates a level of social obligation to the players. There were two competing versions of this game and the admins used their connections in the player base to get us all to play theirs. That happened.

Yes, they do have an obligation to the community beyond just having the servers. We could have followed the other admins, but we didn't, because pang and qz and slag asked us to trust them and we did. Just as in any "trust me" social situation, this puts a degree of responsibility on the host. Mods who give enough of a fluff to tell a player why they were deleted is pretty close to the minimum of this social obligation.

It's cool though, most everyone already realizes you don't post anything of actual value anyway.

Keep calm and troll on.

VicRattlehead: There's only one line in what you've posted that actually disagrees with what I wrote.That's it. You make a case that there should be a standard, which I agree with, but you don't provide any justification for why this in particular should be the one.

Viceroy: I've been providing you with good faith responses to this point, but you insist on putting words into my mouth that I never said. I have not called you an asshole, though if you continue on as you have been I may yet.

If you really think this is a case of tyranny and oppression then, truthfully, the best thing for you to do is indeed to leave because you're so far out of touch from reality that there's probably no reconciling your position with anything reasonable.

Hey iccy, ya know what? fluff off.

Getafix: I have no idea who you are and no reason to care about your opinion of me, or what you think I should do.

Give me a reason to care and maybe I'll listen.

Don't know who Getafix is?

One of the first 500 people to sign up to the site and a winner of multiple servers?

http://earthempires.com/profile/377

lol
http://earthempires.com/...mp;page=0&highlight=5

blid: And? Does someone's ingame ability somehow make their opinion on unrelated topics useful or relevant?

If so, why don't we go ask Ronnie his opinions on game moderation! I'm sure they'll be useful!

5 minutes ago: "i dont know who this guy is!"
after being told this guy is a long long time member of the site and a top player: "so what"

nj

iccy it would be cool if you were half as smart as you think you are, ie half as smart as me.

I know you're just trolling me at this point, but whatever:
I said I didn't know who he was *and* had no reason to care about his opinion of me. You told me who he was, not why I should care about his opinion of me.

I dream of the day I can achieve your level of reading comprehension.

yeah who cares about the opinions of long-time members and top players. if yoiu want to be worthy of iccy's consideration it takes much more than that, like being a moderator for example

lol youre so easy to own haha

You still haven't told me why Getafix is any different than say, Ronnie. Do you even know who Ronnie is? Do you even know who I am, considering that you're trying to ascribe importance to "long-time members"?

Since you mentioned it, the quickest and easiest way to be worthy of my consideration is to be able to make an argument with proper structure and support. I have run into very few of those on the forums here, unfortunately.

i know who ronnie is, he ran milsbeek back in the day and is known ofr cheating. getafix is a staunch anti-cheater, a great player, and a good guy.

See, if you wanted to make an argument out of that it'd be like:

"Iccyh, you're an asshole 'cause you talk down to others on a regular basis, insulting people unnecessarily. Here is this quote of you doing just that to support my case."

Instead, you're reading half my posts, ignoring the points I'm raising, and apparently need two posts to say anything. Lazy!

autism?

It is rather ironic that your laziest post is the one that probably most demands a reply, not because of it's incision but rather due to it's repugnance.

My (limited) understanding of autism is that is a case of social unawareness; people with autism have difficult putting themselves in someone else's shoes. If you're attempting to say that I am autistic because I suggest that I might be an asshole, you're doing two things wrong:

1. You're ignoring that I'm aware of how I appear (lazy, and par for the course)
2. You're suggesting that people with autism are necessarily assholes

You're a real piece of work to suggest that people with autism are all assholes; that is absolutely repugnant and deserves calling out.

I nearly pisssed my pants laughing.

Sociopath.

narcissism

To the best of my ability I always respond to any reasonable pm within 48 hours of it being sent via the forums. More often then not people feel the need to post here anyway either prior to to contact someone via pm, because of the answer the received, or for whatever other reason cthulhu wills it to be on any given day.
If the deletion isn't as straight forward as multiple accounts from the same computer then you can expect a faster response. It gets quite tiring arguing with people over that one. Strangely enough that's the one where we receive the most complaints and angry queries.

For other instances typically there is a private admission of either accidental or deliberate rules violation (deletion usually stays) or a very credible explanation that rules out the violation (country gets restored). Those cases we very rarely get angry flame messages.

The troll wars/personal flaming is unwarranted.

Being married to someone who worked extensively with autistic individuals:
Autism does not imply lack of intelligence (in some cases it's quite the opposite). It's also not a very well defined condition as its causes are not truly understood partly due to our lack of knowledge and partly due to many things being diagnosed as "autism" that probably aren't because of the above and other reasons relating getting the children funded help.
Autism doesn't imply lack of social awareness.. that's Aspbergers syndrome which is an inability to understand social queues. Also unrelated to intelligence or sociopathy.


"So if I invite you to my house for dinner I have no obligation to serve food you will eat? If I ask you to a movie I have no obligation to pick one you will like?"
Right, but I can also boot you, refuse to serve you/ignore you/pie you if you act in an inappropriate manner. As far as "duty of care" goes, ask a lawyer for what that really means.

++martian

I think mars man just called us autistic.

nope.
Sociopathy does not necessarily mean autism:P
Nor just just being emo or angry or a troll:P

*runs* :P

hey folks lay off the autism talk

its not nice to make fun of heston, he can't help it



thanks i'll be here all night

try the veal

Im not a smarrrrrt man trifey but i knowww wat autsm iyyyss. Stupid is as stupid does..

/me goes back to stimming on boobies.

iccyh, here is the one reason why mods do owe us an obligation: Because they've volunteered to be in the position they're in with the understanding that they'll fulfill those positions.

So yes, they need to do the jobs they signed up for. They owe it to us.

If they feel they no longer owe it to us, they can resign and a new mod can step up to fill the void.

It's as simple as that. Don't know why yall keep going back-and-forth with essays.

If you are unhappy with the level of service provided, you are always free to ask for a refund.

++martian
AT head of TAN

timmie has a first name, it's spelled t i m m i e.
timmie has a second name, it's spelled D E L E T E D.
i rarely sing this crazy sing and if you ask me why?
I just plain flat don't care about cheaters getting deleted anymore.

#CanucksGoHome
#SupportEEBanCanada

TAN: The job of the game mods shouldn't be to explain themselves to the malcontents on the forums.

That's the point I'm trying to make, and while it appears you might disagree with me on this I don't see anything in your post that would explain why or provide any kind of justification for why it should be otherwise.

The game ADMINS shouldn't have to, but the game MODS absolutely should explain themselves.

It's a volunteer position. We hold our mods to a high standard because it comes with the job. If they don't have the time to explain themselves, then why are they even in that position still? It's just like being an alliance leader - if you don't have time for the game, then it's time to step down and let someone else who is willing take over.

Transparency is healthy for the game, and being communicative will ultimately lead to less conflict and more understanding.

Let's say tomorrow SOL is deleted. "RAW RAW RAW MARTIAN USED TO BE SOF RAW RAW" But if the tag is deleted, and then a mod explains why, it automatically will diffuse the accusations. Yes, there will still be fluffing. There will ALWAYS be fluffing. But consider if the mods stayed silent in the above (admittedly extreme) scenario.

SOLers and their allies will take the the forums wondering what happened. They will start accusing random people. X hated SOL, so he could have done it. Pitchforks come out and people start attacking X. Politics from AT inevitabley get dragged into the game. Suiciders increase on SoF and LaF simply because of association. Don't forget Pang and qz are LaF and Evo.

But if you make a decision, then post an explanation why, it will nip the entire thing in the bud before anything even happens. This is responsible game management. Being silent and uncommunicative is irresponsible game management.

Therefore, it is incumbent on our game moderators to be open, honest and responsible - which thankfully, they have been! But saying that mods don't have to give an explanation is just - excuse the language - chickenfluff. They have zero reason not to be honest. It's not like we're going to take them to the fluffing International Criminal Court for making a bad decision.

I agree with TAN here. Mars man is good though, not saying he sucks. I actually think our game mods are good, as far as I am aware.

Aren't the admins also effectively volunteers, seeing as they don't get paid either? Your drawing a line between the two seems rather arbitrary.

Transparency is not always healthy for the game. There are cases (like the extreme example you give) where it is useful, but those should be the exception rather than the norm. The majority of situations will be far more similar to the one that prompted this thread: a bitter cheater comes to the forums and immediately gets sympathy from people who think they're owed something by the admins and mods.

Everyone immediately starts telling the mods they need to do better, and that they're somehow at fault because the cheater is the victim and they've been oppressed and wronged by the evil mods who don't properly communicate, never stopping to consider that there may be more to the story than what has been posted.

What comes from the admins and mods getting involved in that? Either they engage and give people the impression that admin/mod engagement is likely in these situations while failing to actually make anyone happy (seen anyone here say thanks to either Pangaea or martian, and say how they've changed their mind 'cause of this?), or they say nothing and wait for it to die out, while hopefully training the community not to bother asking so they don't have to waste their time delving into that fluff.

For exceptional situations, sure, communicate. But should it be expected? No.

The admins might not be making bank, but to say they don't get paid is inaccurate. There is certainly ad revenue associated with this site.

At least there effing well better be for all the popup video ads that come up when I play on my ancient laptop.

That seems like hair splitting seeing as EE is no one's day job. I'd bet, considering the hours they've put in over the years, the admins couldn't pay themselves even half of minimum wage from what they've received from the game.

The ad revenue will no doubt cover the cost of the servers Vic but it's not going to do much more.

I hope I am wrong about that and Pang/qzjul are getting rich. But it doesn't seem at all likely.


If they ARE getting rich - PLEASE SORT OUT THE WIKI SO THAT I CAN ADD OMA AND OUR CUNNING (not to say brilliant) RETAL POLICY!!!