Trump no collusion... - Earth Empires Forum

Karnage XZ

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Mar 25th 2019, 8:15:07

Well, who knows. But you have to wonder with all the information that came out beforehand and all of the reports that were heavily redacted. How much trump and his administrative appointees and legal team assisted in covering up facts. Not only this but many Russians were indicted but refused to cooperate. The Mueller report didn't say there was no collusion, it says that there was not enough proof of it. William Barr didnt release the report just his own personal statement, Barr the same man who was appointed by Trump. Just remember that you don't need to believe everything you hear or read. You should always discern the situation for yourself. I think the governement heavily fears a war between America and Russia and or a civil war occuring from pro trump supporters and non supporters. Which would be a likely outcome. The American people need to create a petition and asks for the unredacted and undoctored original Mueller special council reports and I mean all of them along with the supporting information that they used to form a conclusion. I'm not sold at all on Barrs statement or the probable lack of information from Mueller. Besides Mueller was probably restricted in the conduct of the investigation especially due to trumps legal team and the protections of a sitting president. But if they don't want to continue the investigation than we will have to suppose that its in our best interests not to chase it any further. Congress has a choice to make but if its unpopular with the American people they will probably just leave it at that.

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mrford

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Mar 25th 2019, 8:41:47

Civil war a likely outcome?

I stopped reading there. Jesus you are dense.

It is pretty simple. There isnt enough evidence of collusion for a conviction. Obstruction is a separate matter.

Democrats are fluffing themselves by putting all their cards on this chase. Trump can play the victim card now, and 4 more years just became easier for him. Ironic.

Edited By: mrford on Mar 25th 2019, 8:54:49

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

sinistril

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Mar 25th 2019, 8:55:32

Who needs the burden of proof when you can set up an unfalsifiable premise?

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Karnage XZ

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:01:07

Originally posted by mrford:

I guess you forgot our past agreement not to speak with each other. But even Nancy Pelosi stated that trumps not worth the divide of the nation. That doesn't necessarily translate to civil war, but it's a hint.

Of course, Trump has been playing the victim card since the beginning. He made threats to the drug cartels before his campaign and then asked the FBI for protection. Class moves their really, although I think the drug issue needs to be dealt with. Trumps not a completely bad guy, he's been working on a few issues this country hasn't even tried to deal with in many generations. It's a good thing he's not much of a politician because if he was you could expect more of the same as the predecessors. It's not terrible to make friends with your enemies unless there is some insidious agenda.

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enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:13:21

Originally posted by mrford:

Trump can play the victim card now

"presidential harassment" thats been going on for a while

interesting to see the notional 'most powerful man in the world' acting like a victim

enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:23:17

Originally posted by wapttn reddit:

What Barr put out today is not Mueller's report. Generally speaking, you don't leave the summary of a criminal investigation up to someone appointed by the investigation's primary target. It may or may not be accurate and unfortunately, we have no way of knowing. At this point, I don't think it's reasonable to ask the American public to trust someone based on rank or title. The public needs to see evidence.

Ted Cruz was on CNN this morning before the report was released and when asked if he wanted it released, he shook his head, stuttered, and said "absolutely". For those who study body language, shaking your head 'no' while saying "yes" is a giveaway that you're being dishonest. This implies that Cruz knows or assumes bad news for Trump or himself within the Mueller report.

Trump did a brief news conference in response to Barr's summary and his message hasn't changed. Still "No Collusion", "No Obstruction", "Look at the other side", but did add "complete exoneration". Nothing in his body language or message suggested that he felt exonerated.. no sense of relief, relaxation, or vindication. It's like he knows that this is somehow a hollow victory.

Trump's lawyers have been asked whether they wanted the full report released because it would theoretically exonerate Trump further than Barr's summary has. They danced around that pretty hard and ultimately avoided the question.

Barr's summary states that the Trump campaign did not conspire or coordinate with the IRA. I don't think anyone had made that assumption. The general assumption was that Russian government operatives secured assurances from Trump campaign associates regarding sanctions, in exchange for damaging information on Hillary Clinton released via Wikileaks. I tried to find something in the summary which denies this and I can't (please let me know if I missed it).

My understanding of the summary is that Mueller did not find sufficient evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia. Considering that Mueller wasn't able to interview the primary target of his investigation, there's a chance that he didn't have access to all the evidence he needed. Thankfully, there was a parallel investigation into obstruction of justice. Unfortunately, Mueller only laid out the facts and did not make a determination on whether or not to prosecute. This seems to be related to conduct which would be obstruction, would the individual not also be the president. So that decision was left up to the AG, who was appointed by the primary target of this investigation directly relating to the views he expressed on a President's inability to obstruct justice. And unsurprisingly, Barr was happy to deliver that verdict, without discussing any of the underlying evidence.

And here' the kicker. In the summary, Barr suggests that you can't prove obstruction without first proving the crime which is being obstructed. Apparently, obstruction of justice doesn't count if you're A. The President, and B. Are successful in your ability to obstruct the investigation.

Edited By: enshula on Mar 25th 2019, 10:56:47
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enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:24:37

Originally posted by Lawfare:

Leave it to President Trump to describe as “Total EXONERATION” a document that specifically quotes Special Counsel Robert Mueller as saying that one of his principal findings “does not exonerate” the president.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter

Edited By: enshula on Mar 25th 2019, 10:28:20
See Original Post

mrford

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:30:39

Kinda like being arrested with the only charge being resisting arrest.

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[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

sinistril

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:38:49

To buy into a civil war, you have to buy into the narrative that Trump will be both impeached and removed from office for something that has been investigated three times with nothing substantial found. There's no precedent for such a thing, so that would be a singularity, something with unpredictable ramifications. But there's no reason to believe he will be either impeached, let alone removed. The opposition party constantly talks about impeaching sitting presidents because it is politically beneficial in motivating people to the polls. The whole world is divided right now, maybe more than ever, but every generation has their controversy. Almost undoubtedly nothing will happen other than two completely retarded fringe movements like the alt-right and antifa having the occasional street brawl around election time. Mueller had incentives to find something damning on Trump and didn't. All he did was find things on a few Russian nationals that had nothing to do with Trump and a few people very loosely related to Trump that were either part of the swamp that existed long before him or were naive in their interactions with the FBI. Not really interesting at all. The only interesting part was the fact that the media was complicit in what even my far left friends label modern-day McCarthyism (with exactly the same end result).

Now that this silly business is over we can all watch the much, much more interesting story in the world -- Europe, and what will happen with the European Union in the next decade or two (reform, militarization, or collapse?). That will have much broader, far reaching global implications than whether Trump gets re-elected or not, and a large change on that front is currently and has been happening. Not only because of the implications for a peaceful European hegemony but also because it raises questions about the ultimate nature and viability of customs unions as opposed to free trade agreements.

tldr; no there there, now we can be spectators to the (much more interesting) European theatre

PS: saying things like it isn't a total exoneration, and that Trump's lawyers were vague on whether it should be released, etc are kind of silly. That's from a law blog? No evidence isn't a total exoneration? Mueller might have said it, but who cares? He saw no reason to continue investigating, meaning there was nothing further to investigate... the implications are pretty clear. And if there is no reason to release unnecessary documentation, I don't think you'll find a lawyer that isn't an ambulance chaser that will tell you to release the information anyways. That would be a wholly political move (and the right move IMO as I am a firm believer in transparency in government), not a legal move.

Edited By: sinistril on Mar 25th 2019, 10:47:43

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:50:17

the only way impeachment happens is if about 20 out of 53 republicans in the upper house want it to

and in the lower house some democrats could vote against

so 37.773% of republican senators backing impeachment and trump getting thrown out yet somehow a large proportion of people think its worth going to war over still

the only way that happens is if after the primary nomination things go horrible, as otherwise surely republicans would rather just nominate someone else, although i could see support being high enough for trump to win nomination anyway

and at that point democrats might prefer to face trump than someone else and just not impeach

enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 10:56:22

Originally posted by sinistril:

PS: saying things like it isn't a total exoneration, and that Trump's lawyers were vague on whether it should be released, etc are kind of silly. That's from a law blog? No evidence isn't a total exoneration? Mueller might have said it, but who cares? He saw no reason to continue investigating, meaning there was nothing further to investigate... the implications are pretty clear. And if there is no reason to release unnecessary documentation, I don't think you'll find a lawyer that isn't an ambulance chaser that will tell you to release the information anyways. That would be a wholly political move (and the right move IMO as I am a firm believer in transparency in government), not a legal move.

no the first comment was just from reddit and much more one sided/wishful thinking, ill edit that in the quote link, the lawfare post is seperate i only posted the first paragraph

TeckMing

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Mar 25th 2019, 12:45:48

All democrats supporters here it seems

Bonus

enshula

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Mar 25th 2019, 13:53:49

its more that US players are maybe 1/3 of the player base

so even if 50% of them are republican it will feel very anti trump because basically no one outside USA supports trump

The_Hawk

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Mar 25th 2019, 14:24:24

I am sure the libs can cook up another investigation before the election.

https://ibb.co/BTF4KkJ
Dev encouraging it

brujodale

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Mar 25th 2019, 16:36:15

we have to let the dust settle, read the whole report, what for the other agencies on going cases. this will go on for a good while.
I think we should just give people a qualude then ask them questions lol.
I have helped candidates on both sides of the fence. we always helped the one who was not a crook and had loads of crap baggage.
I have seen crap down on both sides where the people should have been arrested and convicted.

I am keeping an open mind on what else develops.

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 18:20:18

Yeah ultimately it's a good thing our president is not a compromised russian agent tbh. The case of trumps obstruction seemingly would be a lot of stuff from twitter and honestly I can see why theyre not making a case for it. It is a little irritating that the integrity of the special council was constantly damaged by the president but honestly the result here is a damn good thing.

I predicted the report would primarily be about obstruction and im not surprised to see this summary, because it is complicated. Trump is not a russian agent tho. Thats really good. That said hes been an unindicted co-conspirator in other crimes going thru SDNY and Virginia so i stand by the prediction that he will die in prison, but the only way to remove him from office in 2020 is to beat him in the election. Anything else will just continue to seem like head hunting to people.

I'm just pleased that he is not a Russian agent. I was 50/50 on that.

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 18:31:04

Something worth noting in the value fluctuations.

The Cohen hearing brought to light that Trump would artificially inflate the value of his properties in order to win in forbes richest man (lolz) or to secure a bank loan (bank fraud, felony).

In order to secure a loan to make a bid for the Buffalo Bills, trump submitted falsified financial records, and significantly overvalued properties. That's a felony but whats interesting is Deutsche Bank is responding to anyone who asks them questions. They say that they knew that trump was falsifying financial records, and by all accounts, they did not care and still offered him the loan. The purchase never went thru, but it provides some interesting narrative.

I want to live in a world where i can just buy the buffalo bills without having the money for it. Must be cool to be elite.

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 18:40:26

Originally posted by enshula:

Originally posted by mrford:

Trump can play the victim card now

"presidential harassment" thats been going on for a while

interesting to see the notional 'most powerful man in the world' acting like a victim

It works for leftists, so why not?

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)

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KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 18:46:07

Where's the Hillary Russian collusion outrage? She actually has one....Karnage....care to elaborate why you aren't outraged she sold uranium to them while being secretary of state under the Obama administration and then getting hundreds of millions of dollars donated to the Clinton foundation from the Russians? That doesn't bother you or any anti Trump hypocrite.

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:10:13

To be fair, KoH, that wouldnt count as collusion as outlined by the special council's inquiry either. The line is actually drawn before that to specific russian meddling in the election.

What youre sounding off about should be investigated but also too should like Trump income from Oleg Daripaska in exchange for sanctions relief on concord management. Under a similar inquiry, both would be found to have not colluded, and that's kind of just irritating. Lol

Edited By: DerrickICN on Mar 25th 2019, 19:14:44
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DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:16:46

The president not cheating to win by colluding with russia is a good thing for everyone and for america. It is a little rough seeing liberals being upset about it. It's a good thing. He's still a criminal but this is good!

The_Hawk

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:17:37

Hillary still had an outside source try and derail the Trump train. It was also from a former enemy of the United States.

So what's the new liberal battle cry? What should yal be offended of next?

https://ibb.co/BTF4KkJ
Dev encouraging it

The_Hawk

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:19:07

Rather have this "criminal" as president over the other criminal that treats the states as her personal bank account.

https://ibb.co/BTF4KkJ
Dev encouraging it

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:19:24

Emoluments probably.

And bank fraud

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 19:25:52

I love the hypocrisy of the left LOL

Karnage XZ

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Mar 25th 2019, 20:21:12

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

for the last time I DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP OR HILLARY...I VOTE THIRD PARTY!!! Im not a republican or a democrat, I believe the two party IS THE SWAMP.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Karnage XZ

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Mar 25th 2019, 20:30:08

Originally posted by DerrickICN:

None of us has even seen the report. I rung up a union leader on corruption charges and he used his second in command to select his investigation committee and they covered everything up for him and read his exoneration report to the membership that he wrote up himself because I recognized his writing style. I've seen this kind of crap before. I am not sold.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Chevs

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Mar 25th 2019, 20:51:43

are you blacklisted here if you are canadian and full MAGA? asking for a friend cough martian

SOF Head Of Poop
2019-04-03 21:40:26 PS the stinky deyicks (#599) Beryl Houston (#360) LaF 30638A (43783A)
En4cer: Chevs... u would have beaten me by more than 100m

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 21:54:19

Originally posted by Chevs:

are you blacklisted here if you are canadian and full MAGA? asking for a friend cough martian

Oh absolutely, he's the devil!

major

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Mar 25th 2019, 21:57:01

TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT 2020

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 22:14:03

Originally posted by major:

TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT 2020

You just melted a ton of snowflakes, bro..

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 22:29:39

This should really really really help trump. He's still going to have domestic corporate corruption and bank fraud type things to contend with, which he's more likely guity of than collusion. But because he's been completely exonerated of specifically collusion to undermine the 2016 election in an extremely public and long term manner, I'd imagine this will be extremely helpful to him in 2020. The narrative of the 'witch hunt' will gain strength among swing voters and trump/obama voters.

sinistril

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Mar 25th 2019, 22:35:19

Tbh, the Trump-Russia thing echos the reason I hate religion. It has all the hallmarks of religious delusion and is pretty clearly part of a larger, Orwellian, system of control (Eurasia meddled in the election!)

If you keep moving the goalposts every time someone disproves your hypothesis, (which was based on falsified proof to begin with), you're in the realm of faith-based religion.

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 22:43:21

Originally posted by sinistril:

Ahhh snap!, I so agree!, people get so blinded by delusion!

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 23:10:57

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Originally posted by sinistril:

Ahhh snap!, I so agree!, people get so blinded by delusion!

Aww man. You and i talked about this tho. The Mueller report was always going to be about obstruction and the stuff being prosecuted by SDNY has always been the actual crimes guys committed with domestic crimes because there was no collusion to win the 2016 election lol. It's good that there was no collusion to win 2016 tho. There was, as the report indicates, a ton of russian intervention in the election. However, it's super important our president was not taking part, and it's fantastic to be able to be sure of it. I don't think the goalposts are shifting. I think the investigations that genuinely started before mueller, such as emoluments, are crimes that wind up prosecuted due to subpeona power. Just the way that's going to go. Watch and see.

DerrickICN

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Mar 25th 2019, 23:13:19

People will freak out about it on both sides but history repeats itself and trump is even currently an unindicted co-conspirator for a crime michael cohen is going to prison for (hush payment finance violation). That's not collusion and as Michael Cohen said, to his knowledge there was none.

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 25th 2019, 23:53:18

What's your point? Hillary should be jail along with Obama and you turn a blind eye to their corrupt asses...fluff, Bush, Cheney, Bill Clinton...all of them, I guess globalist get immunity..

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 0:16:45

Here Derrick...https://youtu.be/C_-TWnca75A

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 0:37:35

This too.https://youtu.be/LwPSoagsbgM.

DerrickICN

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Mar 26th 2019, 15:07:22

Where did i ever say Hillary should not be in jail? Lol. That's not what I'm saying that at all. In fact i do think she should be investigated, although there was about 10 Benghazi hearings and they weren't very fruitful, and the clunton foundation hearing was a wash as well, i think all criminals should be investigated for their crimes. Lol. Why is that so hard to imagine?

My point is based on the special councils outline, no one would have been indicted because there was no collusion with the 2016 election. As noted by special council, all russian meddling was investigated and neither Hillary nor Trump had direct contact with russians to seek influence. Meaning it would exonerate both of them.

Again, it's bad there was clearly russian meddling in the election to help trump win, as the report indicates thru the dozens of russian nationals and organizations indicted, but the president did not conspire to make it happen which is good. Nor did hillary pay russians to screw trump. Also good.

That's the entire conclusion of this summary, and i still think they're both criminals. In fact, I'm sure of it. Individual 1 is an unindicted coconspirator in financial fraud scheme that people are going to jail for. Hillary at least had the malfeasance and financial violations as well. Stop picking one criminal and recognize this report does nothing to say they aren't both career criminals. They just didnt help russia meddle in our election, which is fine. Would you prefer all investigations into both people be thorough or just be looked thru the small lens of whether or not they helped russia tamper?

It is so confusing to me that everyone to wants thorough investigations of the other side but not of their own. When one party gets accused of crimes, they undermine repeatedly the DOJ, talk fluff about the prosecutors, and their supporters are like YEAH GO fluff THE OTHER SIDE NOW. That isnt how this is supposed to work. We should all be demanding thorough investigations into any potential criminal activity by anyone who may have committed a crime. It shouldnt be political. We should want all criminals in politics properly vetted.

The point is not that hillary gets immunity and trump does not.
The point is not that mccain geys immunity and obama does not.

Correct?

The point is they're all immune because we're too busy catfighting about politics to want genuine criminals prosecuted for crimes. As long as they're "my guy" i can look beyond their crimes. I guess it just comes full circle.

...and goes back to the roman poet Juvenal, bread and circuses.

Public approval is not generated by public service or policy, its generated thru offering a pallaitive. By being obtuse, creating diversions and distractions, and by satisfying people's interest in the reality show. As long as you have bread, and a side to pick, your interest will be keen on one of the criminals but not the other.

Edited By: DerrickICN on Mar 26th 2019, 15:34:16
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KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 16:47:23

Karma is a fluff, yes the other side does need a good fluffing so that they realize corruption is in both parties.

DerrickICN

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Mar 26th 2019, 18:47:53

Yeah. Most righties think there's no corruption on the right and everyone is a criminal on left. Lefties tend to say the same thing vise versa. It's a great way to keep people fighting about it instead of realizing that theyre both half correct. Lol

I hope that emoluments and other crimes by trump and his campaign are thoroughly investigated. If nothing else, the right should see thru william Barr's summary that the DOJ is still fair and is still doing appropriate investigations and coming to conclusions that are not based on politics or conjecture. It wasnt 19 angry democrats. It was 19 credible investigators that investigated all aspects of Russia's intervention in the US election. Dozens of russian nationals were indicted and dozens who were accused incorrectly were exonerated. Hopefully other crimes will be investigated in such a manner. That's honestly a step in the right direction of accountability and transparency in politics, and returns us to a time when people respected the department of justice.

I hope he's found innocent of everything, because I'd prefer not to have a criminal president. But there's suspicion of a lot of crimes and i find it appropriate that the DOJ investigates, if only to exonerate.

For now, I'm just glad there was no conspiracy to defraud the US public. I'm glad the department of justice put aside their political affiliations to provide a fair and appropriate investigation into 2016 russian meddling, and a fair and just conclusion about the results. And I'm glad we can still, as a public, maintain our faith that people in the justice department value, above all else, the rule of law, not whether you are a Clinton or a Trump. For that I'm happy as a lark. And i wish the DOJ great luck in both maintaining its clear integrity, and completely finishing all investigations deemed worthy into the people we elect to lead us.

Edited By: DerrickICN on Mar 26th 2019, 19:21:08
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KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 19:25:23

There are plenty Republican party scumbags that need to be investigated and the fact of the matter is that globalization bought many politicians from both sides, right wing left wing, doesn't matter, it's still the same fluffing bird.

Bottom line is the entire government needs to be investigated, but how do you accomplish such feat when the investigators are appointed by them?

KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 20:22:49

And down goes the first domino....a democrats Lord and savior..

https://youtu.be/BEWGdzIUCkA

DerrickICN

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Mar 26th 2019, 20:31:05

Lol, didn't that guy beat his wife too? Didn't realize creepy porn lawyer was a democrat "lord and savior." Think avanatti was more of an antagonist to the right than anybody anyone on the left cared about.

Pretty funny scheme tho. I enjoy it. Usually catch and kill comes from the journalist with the story not just some dude trying to extort money. This is the exact sort of crime trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in with, you guessed it, Stormy Daniels.

Kind of ironic he would be blasting trump about the legality of catch and kill as a finance violation, while attempting to extort money from Nike to kill a different story. Brilliant.

I'd die laughing if michael cohen is the only one of these dudes to go to jail for these catch and kill extortions. He's such a fluff haha

Edited By: DerrickICN on Mar 26th 2019, 20:33:45
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KoHeartsGPA

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Mar 26th 2019, 20:37:37

Originally posted by DerrickICN:

Yeah?, every single anti Trump network and late night show idolized him and paraded him in their shows..

DerrickICN

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Mar 26th 2019, 20:39:27

I just learned who the Krassenstein brothers are yesterday when someone i was talking to said the left loves them and i looked them up having never heard of them. Turns out the only things i could find about them is they troll trump and the right hates them lol. Avanatti appeared in fox news stories about 15x as much as any other network.

I do remember the media tour around when cohens indictment dropped, but beyond that the last thing i remember hearing about dude was he beats his wife and stormy daniels got a different legal council.