@cathakins

If you look at private market right now,. it's at $100.
I don't think it's 3x your private sell price., but rather 3x your private buy price.

Also I played Demo not Theo.

Thanks for that.

I think the issue was the base bushel price being around $100, so 3x would be $300. In the past, I didn’t really use military bases, but since I had the max this time, the price dropped which probably explains why I couldn’t list them on the market.

@coalie
If you're going to follow me around every thread, at least try to add something original. The obsession's noted; but, it's starting to look desperate.

I'm still a lil rusty with the game.

I couldnt get my food on market so i sold it on private market. Then I was stuck buying units earlier than i wanted.

I'm pretty sure I used to sell my food at 3-400 on market., so this must be like 2-3 yr change.

I don't play here,. but #2 sounds cool idea.

Message from MyFeewingsGotHurtBanHammerUsed (#81) sent on Jun 16, 4:54
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Thank you, that was my error. I wasn't aware of the change.

@koh lol!!

I would have higher than 4th if i didnt have to sell my food at $26.

I didn't know there was a change to the way adding stock bushels to market. I used to always do $400 bushels.

If you guys are going to delete my thread please at least respond to emails of why you're deleting it. I'm legitimately having an issue.

I'm reporting a bug with the public market that blocked me from selling valid items at legal prices.

Here’s exactly what I tried to place:
Unit Sell Price Amount to Sell
Jets $140 7,044,515
Turrets $150 487,091
Bushels $250 64,469,792

After submitting the sell form, I received the following message:

"Some of your goods could not be placed for sale: the maximum accepted selling price is $10000 for technology and triple the private market purchase price for units."

Nothing was listed, and it didn’t specify which item caused the rejection.

So since there's 0 days in between., does that mean the rounds will last longer or does that mean the start/end date will land on different days each round?

I know you guys don't believe my ability,. which is OK, but I can offer one set I got 100mil and beat tmac on TEAMS (where there are 0 bots):

1 kerafyrm (#39) 22,863 $100,000,000 HG Darkness <--------------------- me
2 ashe (#33) 7 $73,296,055 HG zigzag
3 Top 50 (#31) Game profile 30 $67,702,230 HG HCaFC <--------------------- TMAC
4 Looten Plunder (#45) 103 $66,585,196 HG VILLAINS
5 Hyundai Sonata (#4) Game profile 18,918 $66,036,071 R HCaFC
6 Sietch Tabr (#22) Game profile 20,136 $65,293,413 DG HCaFC
7 3rd timez a charm (#35) 56 $63,202,085 HG weedylar
8 grilled halibut (#13) Game profile 20,350 $60,621,365 H zigzag
9 Sly Sludge (#49) 120 $57,848,162 HG VILLAINS
10 Peacefully Netting (#37) Game profile 43 $57,448,665 HG zigzag

I'm going to step back from posting further.

My intention was simply to share why I no longer pursue top rankings on any server particularly EXPRESS not to diminish anyone else's accomplishments.

There was a well-known issue that significantly impacted how I approached the game, and it ultimately made me less willing to invest time into detailed strategy planning. At one point, I even stopped playing entirely, which I mentioned in older threads. That only changed after adjustments were made by the moderators to the minimum oil price.

What I brought up isn't speculation it's something that was acknowledged by a game developer here:
https://earthempires.com/.../21-oil-haha-30207#542381

I understand the analogy, and I see where you're coming from.

That said, I don’t believe I’m giving feedback based on an outdated understanding of the game. I’ve been actively playing recently, and the DR behavior I referenced is from the current version. My earlier experiences may have shaped my perspective, but the observations I shared were drawn from recent sets, not from a version of the game that’s years old.

If there’s something I’m missing or if the DR system has changed in a way that isn’t reflected in how it's being calculated or displayed in-game or on third-party tools, I’m open to learning more. I’m not here to stir up drama or derail discussion. I enjoy this game and the community, and my only intention was to raise what I genuinely thought was a relevant point.

If you’d prefer I step back from this topic, I will. Just wanted to make sure you knew my comments were made in good faith and based on recent in-game experience.

I wanted to clarify my point about DR. The eestats site, which is still listed in the EXPRESS sticky thread under "Third Party Sites," has never provided an accurate reflection of DR. That has been a known limitation for some time. I do not mean this as a personal criticism or to suggest anyone is being dishonest. It is simply something that has been observed consistently by many players, and I can provide examples if that would be helpful.

As for my own experience, I have placed first in Express before, though that is no longer my goal. Once I saw how some players coordinated to manipulate markets through external chats, the competitive aspect lost its appeal for me. These days, I play mostly for war and to test out new ideas. That is why you may have seen a long solo kill thread that was eventually closed. Of course, that experience was from a couple of years ago, and I recognize that the game has changed significantly since then.

What I am struggling to understand is the shift in tone around feedback. In the past, players raised concerns about bots, and those conversations were well received. In fact, they even led to changes that helped make more strategies viable. It seems that this type of discussion is less welcome now. If that is the direction the community is moving in, I completely understand, and I will keep my comments to myself moving forward.

People on all these threads are trolling, name-calling, threatening ppl IRL. I'm legitimately presenting a viewpoint specifically about EE that anyone may argue with and it's somehow offensive. I'm honestly not trying to do that. If you want me to drop subject I can.

Slag what did i say that was misleading?

Why would my respectful opinion ( I've made no personal attacks or anything like that ) be considered chaos?

@kingme

Even if you had 1,000 turns to attack with:

That gives you 500 attacks (2 turns per hit)
But realistically, only about 1/4 of your turns would go toward attacking once you factor in readiness and building, so you're looking at around 125 actual attacks
At 1 million jets per attack, that’s 125 million jets, requiring about 7 million oil (125 ÷ 25)
Even if you send 2 million jets per hit, that’s still only 14 million oil

And that’s assuming you’re perfectly optimizing every single turn, something most players don’t do. On top of that, a large portion of the server runs techer, meaning their oil usage is minimal.

Most players are just hitting undefended countries for small gains, so they don’t even need to buy oil. The only players buying significant oil are the 3 to 4 strong ones who understand how to calculate true DR, not the flawed DR column shown in eestats.

lol.

When you're being attacked by 30+ countries,. you cannot wall all their attacks. Even with perfect walling. Futhermore, they had to use outside help to break my country, even with their 30+ countries. Go back and look at the history.

If you look at all the countries of EE I still hold one of the highest defends of any country in the game. And I died bc of pci death,.. which is unfortunate rounding issue of game.

@kingme

Just look at news of EXPRESS last set on IRC. #expressnews

@vic
You’re right that real wars have variables weapon tech, walling, troop buys, timing. But the point of the math is to give a realistic baseline. Let's walk through it with your 1.2 million troop claim.

If the defender starts with 1.2 million troops and loses 8% per hit, the troop count shrinks exponentially:

This follows the formula:
1,200,000 × (0.92)^n < 100

Solving that gives:
n > log(100 / 1200000) / log(0.92) ≈ 110.7

So about 111 hits would reduce them from 1.2 million to under 100 troops assuming no replenishment.

Now the oil usage:
If you're using 100,000 troops per hit and oil use is 1 per 25 units, that's:
100,000 / 25 = 4,000 oil per hit
4,000 × 111 = 444,000 oil total

Even if they bought some troops during the war, you aren't burning through 5 to 10 million oil to kill someone unless you're wildly inefficient.

Also:
cd(1.2 million) 20x = ~530,000 troops
530,000 × 0.7 = ~371,000 troops after demo

So even without the kill happening in one burst, the math still heavily favors exponential troop loss.

@Vic

The example of 400k troops was just a reference point to show how oil costs scale when trying to kill a country. Obviously, a defender can have more troops or buy more during the fight, but the math still gives a reasonable starting point.

Even if the defender had 600k troops and you brought 100k per hit, each hit still costs 4,000 oil.
It takes about 110 to 115 hits to wipe them out, which comes out to around 460,000 oil total.
At $150 per barrel, that’s just under $70 million worth of oil. Not small, but definitely not massive compared to how much oil players try to sell.

Most players overproduce oil expecting huge demand, but in Express you just don’t need that much to kill someone, even a strong target.

So sure, your strat may have worked. But the real problem is that the oil market can’t handle 50 to 70 million barrels per player when multiple people are producing. That’s the part that’s worth a second look.

The math explains it better than isolated success stories ever will.

@niteil

you're having to buy from private bc oiler strat is not worth playing.

Actually, it doesn't take much oil to kill someone on Express.

Say the defender starts with 400k troops and loses 8% per hit. That means each time you hit, they lose 8% of what they have left.

After each hit, their troop count is reduced to 92% of the previous amount:

After 1 hit: 400,000 × 0.92 = 368,000
After 2 hits: 368,000 × 0.92 = 338,560
...and so on.

This forms a geometric sequence. To reduce someone from 400k to under 100 troops:

400,000 × (0.92)^n < 100
Take log of both sides:
n > log(100 / 400000) / log(0.92) ≈ 99

So it takes about 99 hits to get a country starting with 400k troops to under 100 troops (aka 4 oil).

Now for oil. If you're using 100k troops per hit and oil use is 1 oil per 25 units:

Each hit costs 100,000 / 25 = 4,000 oil
Total oil for 99 hits: 4,000 × 99 = 396,000 oil

At $150 per barrel, that's 396,000 × 150 = $59.4 million worth of oil.

That’s the cost to kill a well-defended country. For most countries with fewer troops, it’s even cheaper.

Bottom line: it doesn’t take that much oil. The math doesn’t lie.

Appreciate the mature response, Vic.

You're right that no strategy works every set. That’s not what I was arguing. I’m saying that even with competitive pricing, oil supply often sits untouched. When one player can produce 70 million barrels and barely sell 4 or 5 million at $150, it’s worth examining whether the mechanics are functioning as intended in Express.

If you have a strat that works in the current environment, great. But calling someone "retarded" instead of addressing the actual points just weakens your position.

You keep saying I "didn't debunk fluff" but you're not addressing what was actually said.

The point wasn't that no oil ever sells or that oiler can't work at all. The point was that in today’s Express server, with current bot behavior and player patterns, you can sit with 70 million oil at $150 and not even move 10% of it. That’s not theory that’s what happened last set.

You and others might have success running oil/farm hybrids, and that’s fine. But saying oil sells every set doesn’t refute the actual issue. There is a real demand gap in this server's economy unless someone coordinates buys or the bots change behavior.

If you’ve got scores that prove your strat works today, great. But don’t act like putting 40 million oil on at a reasonable price and seeing barely any movement isn’t evidence of something broken.

I didn't sidestep. I think you misread the discussion.

Slag was saying the absence of players buying oil doesnt mean a shortage of oil because players can buy oil on private market.

By me putting 40+ million oil on market at $150 users are not going to be buying oil on private. Not even THEO is getting it that cheap. That's what I meant by debunking.

This was back when i was still learning the game., over 10 years ago.

https://earthempires.com/...ess-talk/oil-34419#624909

Feel free to see my discovery in the making.

@vicrattlehead
I honestly don't aim for highest finishes. I experiment with different ideas. The entire LaF oil destock was my idea. Ask gains. Or better yet, check boards.

If I honestly tried one of the ideas that are already invented I'm pretty sure I would score higher than 99% of the players on here. Mainly because I can programmatically calculate much of the stuff on here.

I was actually working on a side project that will use AI literally to select the best move. I just haven't had much time to work on it & to be frank,. it would ruin the game if I completed it.

My discussion here is promote strategies which are at a severe disadvantage than the obvious Techer/Commie strategies.

The only money I spent my oil $ on were jets and buildings

You can’t drop land for 24hrs on Express that’s why i finished my attacks 28hrs b4 set ended.

No disrespect taken. I’m also thick skinned, and you, nite and slag are great netters so tbh I appreciate the discussion.

I finished my attacks a day early and I calculated a 50+ mil net finish by mbr. I finished the set by dropping land to 100acres, with 70 mil oil on hand that I couldn’t sell.

All I had to do was sell oil and I would have easily sold those units.

And that's IF i had the best unit in game (60 mil of them at $100) which isn't going to happen.

If I sold 40mil barrels of oil I'd make 30mil networth.

1. Each troop gives 0.5 networth
So to reach 30 million net:
30,000,000 / 0.5 = 60,000,000 troops

2. Each troop costs $100
To buy 60 million troops:
60,000,000 * 100 = $6,000,000,000 (cash needed)

3. You sell oil at $150 per barrel
So to get $6 billion:
6,000,000,000 / 150 = 40,000,000 barrels of oil


And I sold 4-5mil. Think about that.

You're correct Slag,. that information only you would know.

But if I offered oil at $150 an entire set and I only sell 4-5mil,. w/o barely any undercutting., I'm concluding players will buy that over private market.

supply/demand is precisely my point. there's barely any demand every set & that demand should be increased by the bots.

EXPRESS is nothing like Coop server in every way.

Am I misreading it? His link that he posted discusses 2 options:
Leave it as 5 days or switch to 7 days.

That certainly was not my accusation Slag. It's well known you're an OG of the game. When I look at scores your record exists over a year ago w/ a completely different market.

My comment about coordinating was in reference to today's EXPRESS market. The volume needed to be purchased in today's market would require another player to buy oil. Look at my country from last set and you'll see like 60mil oil on-hand.

My comments here are not attacking anyone or making accusations like such, I'm making it known that oiler strat is not viable on this server and that the bots should probably consume a % of them. The reason it's not an issue on other servers is bc players consume oil for destocking purposes which is not a viable strategy on this server bc there's simply not enough turns.

Now,. with the changes of adding an extra two days,. people may start to stock oil, I don't know.

I started this thread before that announcement was made.

Unless you coordinate someone to buy your oil,. it's not going to happen. (which is against rules).

Also comparing 30m all-x strat vs bots from 2+ years ago doesnt work. The bots are completely different today than they once were. These bots used to stockpile insane cash and all the non-tech govt could spend turns wacking those bots for like 30-40mil cash per hit.

And before you comment on saying all-x don't hit bots,. you could also back then rob banks for 9-10mil a turn.

I already debunked that theory last set.

I'll capture news at end of set; but, you'll see It's very low. Like I mentioned earlier., I created 70mil barrels last round and only 4-5mil sold at 150., maybe a few hrs in here & there where my stuff fell off market.

I bet if you go to market news and filter for oil you'd see what I'm saying is right.

On Stack Overflow, when a user flags a post (for being offensive, spam, not an answer, or needing moderator attention), the system tracks the flag and sends it to either community review queues or moderators depending on the type. (moderately offensive vs highly offensive)

Once reviewed, if the community or mods agree and take action, it's counted as a valid flag. If they disagree or leave the post up, it's considered a false flag.

Stack Overflow keeps track of this. Users who flag accurately build up a helpful flag count. But too many declined (false) flags can lead to restrictions, such as being temporarily unable to flag or having future flags carry less weight.

Example:
A user flags 100 posts.
If 90 of them result in action and 10 are declined, that’s a 90% flag accuracy.
But if they start flagging things they just personally dislike, and those flags get declined more often, the system starts to treat their flags as less trustworthy. Eventually, they may even lose the ability to flag altogether.

I guess I'm just making some suggestions for moderation on wrong thread.

For the forum moderation just use the same system StackOverflow uses. It then allows moderators to focus more on judgements made by the community rather than being a judge for every posts.