I agree that you did try to improve relations, but I thoroughly believed that Ivan would get his way. Ivan among other leaders have had it out for Evo, because they feel we violated our friendly war agreement and send suiciders their way.

This is a conversation I had with Ivan in August of last year (and yes this is exactly how he started the conversation):

IvanWAR: 1 your an asshat
[13:27] IvanWAR: 2 evo has stepped on a very thin line off that pact during the entire 4 sets
[13:28] IvanWAR: 3 your the only tag ever to violate a friendly war agreeement
[13:28] IvanWAR: 4 you keep sending suiciders on us
[13:28] IvanWAR: 4 if you dont do 4 you sure as hell is 2 stepping the most of it
[13:28] IvanWAR: 5 annoying me if evo wants to netgain in the future isnt very smart
[13:28] IvanWAR: but on the other hand, you KJ or QZ never really acts very smart
[13:28] anoniem: You have two bullet points labelled 4
[13:29] anoniem: So I would assume that either you can't count or you're the real ass-hat here
[13:29] IvanWAR: so to summarise it all up, 1 if you want a pact in the future its bout time you step the hell up
[13:29] IvanWAR: or you wont be netting anytime soon
[13:29] anoniem: How about you start a conversation like a normal human being i.e. Hello?
[13:29] IvanWAR: how bout you dont try to be a smart ass on AT then
[13:29] IvanWAR: and i have no time for a conversation right now
[13:29] anoniem: You should refrain from making threads that infuriate people
[13:29] IvanWAR: and to summarise it all up if im going to have an FA conversation with evo
[13:29] anoniem: You should also refrain from threatening war
[13:30] IvanWAR: it definately wont be with you
[13:30] anoniem: and threatening to suicide evo
[13:30] IvanWAR: I'll threaten with whatever the hell i want to
[13:30] anoniem: If it's not with me
[13:30] anoniem: Then you won't be speaking to anybody in EVO.
[13:30] IvanWAR: thats not my problem
[13:30] anoniem: Evo has no interest in Sof
[13:30] IvanWAR: thats your problem
[13:30] anoniem: why would we suicide you?
[13:30] anoniem: How about you stay off the crack
[13:30] IvanWAR: to get land
[13:30] IvanWAR: and yes i know its been done before
[13:30] IvanWAR: by evoers!
[13:30] IvanWAR: imagine that!
[13:30] anoniem: Yup, last time you blamed bobbyata
[13:31] IvanWAR: me? no
[13:31] IvanWAR: but i know that he has suicided on tags
[13:31] IvanWAR: and been hit by friends
[13:31] anoniem: Can't even remember what you posted huh?
[13:31] IvanWAR: nope
[13:31] anoniem: what a surprise
[13:31] IvanWAR: yeah im sure you remember all of your posts
[13:31] IvanWAR: over the course of the 1 month youve been playing
[13:31] IvanWAR: but ive played for the last 11 years
[13:31] IvanWAR: so no i wont remember every post
[13:31] anoniem: Lol
[13:31] IvanWAR:
[13:31] anoniem: I've been playing since 2011
[13:32] anoniem: When you thought you were good
[13:32] IvanWAR: thats about how good your skills are
[13:32] anoniem: 2000*
[13:32] anoniem: 2000-2011*
[13:32] anoniem: Hey ivan
[13:32] anoniem: fluff off
[13:32] IvanWAR: i know how long youve played for
[13:32] anoniem: I'm done with you
[13:32] IvanWAR: but i dont give a fluff
[13:32] IvanWAR: ive been done with you for years
[13:32] anoniem: we dont suicide on sof
[13:32] IvanWAR: which is why we've never done FA
[13:32] anoniem: we dont give a fluff about your alliance
[13:32] IvanWAR: not a single time
[13:32] anoniem: you're a paranoid little fluff wit
[13:32] IvanWAR: and then we've both done FA for quite some time
[13:32] anoniem: who needs to learn some fluffing manners
[13:32] IvanWAR: im not paranoid
[13:32] IvanWAR: lol
[13:32] IvanWAR: im sure these suiciders are RD/NA
[13:33] IvanWAR: but that doesnt make it evo land
[13:33] IvanWAR: and never will make it evo land
[13:33] anoniem: if these suiciders are rd/na
[13:33] IvanWAR: and one way or another you will learn to respect other tags land
[13:33] anoniem: why the hell are u blaming me
[13:33] anoniem: buy something fluffing defence
[13:33] anoniem: some*
[13:33] IvanWAR: because evo as always is 2 steppin like mad
[13:33] anoniem: or premptively kill them
[13:33] IvanWAR: theres no defense enough to avoid suiciders
[13:33] IvanWAR: which we both know so just let off that point
[13:33] anoniem: well seeing as the 3 top commies are allied
[13:34] IvanWAR: so you want me to kill every untagged in the game
[13:34] anoniem: and one was called sof
[13:34] IvanWAR: again?
[13:34] anoniem: why dont u engage your brain
[13:34] IvanWAR: its already been posted as a KT
[13:34] IvanWAR: actually 426 is dead
[13:34] anoniem: so evo are performing shady tactics? but NA/RD are actually running the suiciders
[13:34] IvanWAR: anyway like i said since evo always always refuses to talk about this
[13:34] IvanWAR: or respect other tags land
[13:34] anoniem: yet you waste my time
[13:34] IvanWAR: there will be issues about it
[13:34] anoniem: when it's not us
[13:34] anoniem: give me a break
[13:35] IvanWAR: dont 2 step our land
[13:35] IvanWAR: if you do, we will 2 step yours
[13:35] IvanWAR: thats a promise
[13:35] anoniem: When have we refused to talk about this?
[13:35] IvanWAR: youve been warned enough
[13:35] anoniem: When have you even not been a moron, so that people actually want to talk to you?
[13:35] IvanWAR: ive told qz bout this issue the last 3 sets
[13:35] IvanWAR: thats not my problem
[13:35] IvanWAR: your a moron too which is why i dont do FA with you
[13:35] anoniem: you can 2-step our land
[13:35] anoniem: we are not crying
[13:35] IvanWAR: im sure you will
[13:35] anoniem: laf did it to us last set
[13:35] anoniem: did i cry?
[13:35] IvanWAR: but choice is yours
[13:35] anoniem: Shut up ivan
[13:35] IvanWAR: shut up ano
[13:35] anoniem: go on suicide us all u want
[13:36] IvanWAR: stop being a fluffing 5 year old
[13:36] IvanWAR: ok then we will
[13:36] anoniem: so you're going to suicide us
[13:36] anoniem: LOL
[13:36] IvanWAR: go fluff kj now
[13:36] anoniem: what a crybaby hyprocrite
[13:36] IvanWAR: im going to 2 step the fluff out of you
[13:36] anoniem: hypocrite *
[13:36] IvanWAR: and then im going to tell you to get defense
[13:36] IvanWAR: because thats the relation evo wants between sof and evo
[13:36] IvanWAR: and has begged for over several resets
[13:37] IvanWAR: and then if its me personally 2 stepping you or not
[13:37] anoniem: This conversation is over. Once you've grown up and have learnt how to effectively use the english language to your benefit, then we can talk again.
[13:37] anoniem: Goodbye
[13:37] IvanWAR: guess we'll never find out
[13:37] IvanWAR: this convo was over before it even started
[13:37] IvanWAR: i dont want to talk to you
[13:37] IvanWAR: i will never do FA with you
[13:37] IvanWAR: EVER
[13:37] IvanWAR: also english isnt my first language
[13:37] IvanWAR: so dont go there
[13:37] anoniem: You're still talking? Wow.
[13:37] IvanWAR: if you want we can talk swedish next time
[13:37] anoniem: You're dumber than you appear on AT.
[13:37] IvanWAR: actually i will
[13:37] IvanWAR: send an evo fa my way and ill talk swedish to them
[13:38] IvanWAR: nah your the dumb one
[13:38] IvanWAR: i speak 3 languages
[13:38] IvanWAR: your nothin but a fluffing cheater
[13:38] IvanWAR: and always has been
[13:38] IvanWAR: now go fluff kj
[13:38] IvanWAR:
[13:38] anoniem: You don't know when to be quiet do you?
[13:39] IvanWAR: im going to a restaurant now with alley
[13:39] IvanWAR: bye bye


That is the kind of nonsense I had been dealing with from Ivan for a long time, so it's not surprising that I didn't believe anybody could quell him. Those kinds of conversations grate on people. It's not even worth playing the game if you have to consistently deal with that on a daily basis.

N.B. The point of the logs is that Ivan habitually slandered Evo as being suiciders on AT and threatened to war/suicide us in revenge i.e. not allow us to netgain, while all along he says he "knew" the suiciders were from NA/RD and NOT evo.

it's all good TAN

bingo for the PDM conflict too.
those who negotiated did so with the absolute expectation of ending up in war one way or another, regardless of the stance they presented to us. good cop, bad cop FA 101 :p
sov's admission that as part of basically upping the stakes, he would topfeed PDM, shows that he expected to push us into war, which in the end, happened.

but replace the suicider thing in anon's post with SoF also FS'ing PDM the next round as we netted the next round as revenge for the war SoF wanted, won and looked good in :p
That's part of the problem with the state of things.

That anon/ivan conversation is hilarious, all things aside.

it's more funny when you imagine Ivan as a muppet, as I always do when talking to him!

I really need to finish and post my Ivan conversation collage.

Also obligatory lol at PDM signing SoF w/o consulting Evo.

/refills popcorn

[13:35] anoniem: When have you even not been a moron, so that people actually want to talk to you?
...
[13:35] IvanWAR: your a moron too which is why i dont do FA with you

LMAO... those were my two favorite lines.

You're a moron. No you're a moron too.

Tan we go back a long time. I implore u to just shut up man.

Yeah, you're right. Apologies to SoF. Not to the point I was making, but for the offensive tone. Sorry about that. I will avoid chiming in in the future regardless. It is counterproductive.

[quote poster=CandyMan; 19321; 358679][13:35] anoniem: When have you even not been a moron, so that people actually want to talk to you?
...
[13:35] IvanWAR: your a moron too which is why i dont do FA with you

LMAO... those were my two favorite lines.

You're a moron. No you're a moron too. [/quote]

[13:37] anoniem: You're dumber than you appear on AT.
......
[13:38] IvanWAR: nah your the dumb one

hehe

Heh we are all taken wrongly. It's the beauty of trying to establish what someone is saying behind type words.

Agreed, I LOL'd.

I think you guys are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. The involved alliances should sit down and talk about peace. These wars are terrible for the server IMHO.

It's easier said than done. I'm not saying SoF isn't interested in peace in this case, but it is a war alliance, just like sol and imag. Hypothetically speaking, if everyone wanted to talk peace, who would SoF, sol and imag war? Each other? That's why this game desperately needs more players and more alliances. Instead what we have is status quo.

I think one thing that would help this game is makIng war less demandIng. For many of us, we just don't have the time to commit to warring set after set. Not everyone wants to wake up in the middle of the night to wall, and not everyone has the time to coordinate these things. Sure it would alter the game mechanics and dynamics radically different, but we need to start thinking outside the box here if we really want to make this game available to popular consumption rather than for a niche group of gamers.

I said that people should have negotiated a way forward both the set it happened and last set :P Seems that not everyone wants it sadly. Pride is MD #1 yet?

Oh and Tan, Sof is the warring alliance that will net. Sol and Imag are the only two who never net so Sof is a different animal. IMO Sol and Imag have to learn to net and the netters need to war a bit :P

When SoF and SoL both had the opportunity to war each other (when they were both top dogs) they were too afraid and instead picked on weaker alliances.

Nobody can argue about that. They WERE both as bad as each other.

In our hearts :P

that was the funniest log ever.

you are an idiot, no you are an idiot.

my penis is bigger then yours, no mine is bigger then yours.

blhaa, more logs please.

I really hope there's more logs of you two.

I just ask that you only post them slowly, spread it out over a week, or months even. Let's milk this for all it's worth.

They all look pretty much the same

but ivan, its endless amusement for us :P

I never said that i minded :)

I didn't landgrab PDM to up the stakes and force PDM into a war. I didn't try to force PDM into a war. Do not twist my words to suit your argument.

I warned you that if you continued with your attitude at the time that it would not work out for you, but you continued. You didn't want to discuss things diplomatically, you wanted them to be hate fueled. You threatened SoF, you trash-talked us and you gave us reason to come after you the next set. Whether or not you believe we were justified in hitting you is irrelevant, you were warned and we followed through.

Lets just void the pact and see pdm on the battlefield next set.

We can settle this the good ol fashion way

but tan, if we do this dont cry about breaking the pact. You asked for it with your nonsense.

Mockdu is very attractive when he tries to act tough. Flex some more for me you bad boy you.

not tough, just saying. stop the fluffing fluffing and get on with it.

Pang should just join SoF so he can see how we work for himself ;)

Then he can also see the work we are doing to build our Alliance up and use it to encourage others. Maybe then he can also understand SoF better.

I've played in SoF on multiple occasions in EE.

Not the current incarnation of SoF, which I assure you is completely different ;)

mmhmm... i bet...

lol

awesome logs.

See for yourself ;)

Put it this way, if it is not... you have fuel to troll us with :p

you guys are already the Saudi Arabia of troll fuel!

lol

lol

Pang, considering you played in Laf during the days when Laf raped small clans repeatedly and not enjoyably for them I might add, can you say that your opinions on what is good/bad for the game have changes since you became an admin? Q+A time

lol, odd question, but absolutely. i definitely treat the game differently now than I did when it was a 20,000 person game with lots of turnover and new blood round after round. I also don't treat the game the same way as I did when I was a 15 year old in highschool. viewpoints have to evolve over time or else we'll be mired in stagnation. my inflection point when I went from LaF focused to community focused was when things actually started getting bad and I had pretty much accomplished what I wanted to do with LaF (double crown with 100+ members after rival declared eternal war on us). After that I just stayed with LaF because I liked the ppl. Once GT went down, I decided that I would put the vast majority of my efforts toward making the game a better place (through hosting + wanting to work with the staff, which nearly happened!) and by trying to help push LaF in a direction that made them more of a force of good for the server instead of bad while still making LaF the strongest alliance. It aligned with what we wanted to do anyway; netgain. Evo was proving that good finishes with largely all-x strats was possible, I wanted to explore that further as well because I felt we could do it much, much better. But my opinions about what is good and bad for the game has not changed since EE started, if that's what you're trying to get at.

I had hoped that everyone's attitudes would have changed when EE started because everyone had what they finally wanted -- a staff that cared about the game, had the skills to get things done and knew the game inside out. I know that we fully expected the community to be a contributing partner because that's what everyone said when we started things up -- that's how we built the momentum to get things started. But once the first rounds started, the novelty wore off and the old style of politics continued, old grudges continued on and same sort of political cycles continue. Not only that, but the fact that there was an active staff that cared created yet another lightning rod for the existing conflicts that wasn't good for anyone. It's an interesting experiment to look back on because I don't think I would change anything but at the same time, I'm not entirely happy with the overall result in the alliance server. And the alliance server is the reason that this game was created.

Maybe that was part of the problem the whole time!!! :-o

Pang, do you consider SoF to be the biggest poison of the game? ;)

It is the inherent laziness in people I suppose and since you have things up and going they go back to not helping.

And Sov from what he has said I would guess that he views pretty much everyone in this power block war as a bit of a poison which needs to change the way they act :P Amusing thought considering PDM entered last set though.

Q: would u say admins and mods playing key roles in alliances tip and unfair advantage to some game mechanics or even forum rights?

Having Pang in Laf never gave us an unfair advantage in any way to my knowledge :P

I can answer Boltar's question for Pang, the answer is yes.

Due to suiciders hitting PDM for actions done on the a different server entirely, Pang's position in PDM kept changes from happening to Team because he felt it would show too much bias.

So great work Pontius for being a great advocate for this game and helping facilitate change. Oh wait...

http://forums.earthempires.com/...hreadid=15347&page=11

Sov: Firstly, I have considered joining SoF just to have a look behind the scenes in the past. Partly because I like Ivan, even though he seems to have it in for PDM simply because we are willing to land trade, while being all buddy budy with RD who were our primary partners in land trading.
That said, if Ivan has it in for an alliance, regardless of what the rest of SoF may wish, generally that alliance will cop it.
Secondly: you talk about us selling out our allies, and yet by your own words ON THIS VERY THREAD, that you used information from RD as a basis to FS us. At a time when RD were our DP's. That's selling out right there.
Thirdly: you had to know that intentionally breaching your own topfeeding policy in attacking our land trading countries was bound to escalate the situation, especially given the number of times SoF tagged countries have topfed PDM countries in the last weeks of a set for no other reason than griefing. We may not war well, but we won't hesitate when it comes to defending our right to play as we see fit.
Now Helmet claimed after the hosing you gave us that second set (where I will admit I almost left PDM, or got booted for running amok over a few things) that SoF had changed. I have yet to see evidence of this, given the first thing you try and do when we look to go forward in peace is attempt to force THE EXACT SAME BULLfluff ANTI LANDTRADING PACT that we have constantly and consistently refused to accept, down our throats again.
Irrespective of the fact that Boltar and I negotiated on it some, SoF leadership (and PDM leadership too sadly) shot it down outright, as SoF refused to allow us to be able to void if SoF or LaF attacked our allies. I hear your leadership had an even bigger flufffit, Ivan in particular, when Boltar and Archaic signed off on identical terms to the pact we signed with LaF.
Sounds like sof hasn't changed at all to me.
Evo: Personally, I'm sorry if you guys feel we have sold you out. I can't offer any more than that, beyond what I have said above.
I wasn't aware that no one had said anything to you, or I would have contacted you myself and said that we were looking to pact out for a bit.
The fact is, this server war achieved exactly nothing, and has simply ensured more bullcrap.

I've read many of your views Drow and the "facts" you sprout off are always amusing.

Maybe if your Alliance stopped being a bunch of over-sensitive sissies with a misguided sense of self entitlement we can negotiate more diplomatically.

lol...

I see you are still spouting out the same rubbish about me having heads access in PDM.

If it's true that PDM had to sign an anti-landtrading pact, then I hope RD were given the same terms, merely for consistency.

We didn't include anti-landtrading terms in the final pact. It was included in the first draft but that's part of a concept most civilized people refer to as "negotiation".

Drow, if you actually thought this war this set would solve anything then you are completely naive. The only way your side thinks it is solved is if you stomped us and then I suspect that our side would disagree with the solved part.

/eat popcorn

locket: truth. Server wars, sadly don't solve anything, unless one side is genuinely and completely in the right. Sadly, THAT never happens either.

Flamey: it wasn't said then that you had head access, but that you had access. and that the information was provided by a sof head. I can't comment on that as I don't know who provided the info, and so far as I know, you only had an amby account anyways.

Sov: I can't argue that, except to say that given the last pact PDM had signed with sof had no landtrading terms, why would you put them back in knowing that we wouldn't sign them?