#16 - Earth Empires Forum

KoHeartsGPA

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May 25th 2014, 8:58:26

He's using it to his advantage, don't know that its really abuse since he ain't going anywhere with his parking lot ;-)

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)

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Cable

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May 25th 2014, 14:52:51

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

He's using it to his advantage, don't know that its really abuse since he ain't going anywhere with his parking lot ;-)

Yes exactly he's using it to his advantage also known as abusing it carrying no defense and top feeding guys who cant even get 10% of their land back.

ssewellusmc

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2431

May 25th 2014, 14:57:40

He is allowed to use it to his advantage as long as it isn't coordinated? Right?

UpTheIrons

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463

May 25th 2014, 17:16:42

Yeah this stinks. Lose 1k retal get back 200A.

Cable

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1521

May 25th 2014, 17:44:30

Originally posted by ssewellusmc:

He is allowed to use it to his advantage as long as it isn't coordinated? Right?

Yes of course game play wise its not against the rules

crest23

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May 25th 2014, 18:21:30

It is a delectable offense, report him.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

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May 25th 2014, 18:23:15

I reported this yesterday and pm'd tellarion about it, we'll see if he feels it's DR abuse. I think it clearly is.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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May 25th 2014, 18:23:45

that's mr ed keeping him in DR even though it's obvious what's happening. mr ed not very smart. the topfeeding guy is probably deezy

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

MountainYeti

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361

May 25th 2014, 18:52:53

Same thing happened last week wit LiveMax#84 who finished 3rd. I can't remember who was hitting him but the news feed made it pretty obvious that he was being helped with permanent DR

mr ed

Member
79

May 25th 2014, 18:57:36

I'm flattening him because he multitapped me and I wanted to make sure he didn't get a decent finish. I'm not particularly worried what he does with the DR, if it's abuse he gets deleted, if it's not it's part of the game and you all deal with it. Run more defence.

KoHeartsGPA

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May 25th 2014, 19:09:55

Originally posted by mr ed:

#teachmehowtowarisuxor

ddog

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May 25th 2014, 19:49:22

Well thanks for that.

blid

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May 25th 2014, 21:21:03

I sent tellarion a link to where warster said this kind of thing was DR abuse and set precedent

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Cable

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1521

May 26th 2014, 0:21:34

Originally posted by mr ed:

You can have 100% defence and he can have 100% offense because you suck ass at leveling anyone. Learn to level people

blid

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May 26th 2014, 2:41:35

and that's how some random noob can get to 30k acres and ruin 10 peoples sets. how is this not DR abuse? how is this not a problem? tella should have acted

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

tellarion

Member
3906

May 26th 2014, 4:59:24

I'm going to follow up on this, but my understanding over the past 7 months of modding this server is that the DR rules were meant to curb someone colluding to be intentionally put into DR. #16 got absolutely leveled, and despite the fact that he was by far the fattest, he was a massive parking lot all the way until the set ended, and it obviously didn't benefit him that much. We'll see what martian and the other mods say, but this was definitely not collusion; it was an experienced player taking advantage of his situation after being levelled, the same thing many people do.

h2orich

Member
2245

May 26th 2014, 5:46:15

DR half life was made to 8 hours on express to curb dr abuse.. But Mr ed decides to AB him 20 times every 10-15 hrs.. that's why he was constantly in DR. if he had done 60 ABs at one go, #16 would be out of Dr within 24 hours with all his top feeding attacks.

KoHeartsGPA

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May 26th 2014, 7:16:57

No abuse here, just an experienced player vs nOOb warrior.

blid

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May 26th 2014, 13:40:53

Originally posted by tellarion:

He was taking tons of land from people that it was impossible for them to get back, because of DR. That's a major game flaw that stems from the fact he was abusing DR.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

tellarion

Member
3906

May 26th 2014, 14:45:59

And what good did it do him? He spent the entire set as a parking lot, and despite being the fattest country, he didn't do well at all.

The rules as written, and as understood by myself and the other moderators, state that having someone intentionally put you into dr so that you can grab with impunity is deletable. This situation did not fit that criteria. It sucks if you're on the receiving end, I get it, but it's not against the rules.

Cable

Member
1521

May 26th 2014, 14:53:58

It didn't do him any good, but if you look at scores it discouraged and screwed over other players. After seeong what was happening I quit grapping or carring for the week knowing full well eventually that guy would attack me dispite defense levels and take countless land I couldn't retal.

As rich said if he didnt AB him every 12 hours keeping him in continously in DR, a player couldn't even save turns till sunday and take a late retal and then run turns. It might not have been coordinated or used to benifit him but he used it to ruin multiple players sets and push players out of the game this week

tellarion

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May 26th 2014, 15:09:49

So 1 topfeed is enough to prevent anyone from getting above 21m? I find that hard to believe...

blid

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May 26th 2014, 16:12:00

Oh I still would've finished around 30m or just a mill or so under but then some other guy forced me into a war.

But my point is that people he hits are being left with no recourse because of the DR. During the long long long DR discussions that went on in the past, the admins mentioned different possible changes to the game, one proposal being that a retal wouldn't be impacted by DR, for the purpose of fixing this problem. Because it's a problem, it IS a way to abuse the DR, and the problem isn't contingent on the topfeeder having a good finish, it's not best viewed in terms of benefit given but in terms of harm done, and the type of harm which is irreparable thanks to the DR. All of which makes this a form of DR abuse, it's made possible by the DR mechanic and it's an example of the DR mechanic being abused, and as I linked you, Warster said he would delete for it. Not acting was in fact rewriting the precedent that Warster set with that post.

Edited By: blid on May 26th 2014, 16:20:18
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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May 26th 2014, 16:17:17

Originally posted by Cable:

I tried not to coordinate, instead I just wrote to Mr Ed and said "boy that player you AB'd is going to be out of DR soon and I owe him a retal! *licking my chops*" or something and he just ignored it and hit him again anyway so then I sent him a bunch of messages calling him an idiot and saying can't you see what he's doing to everyone and that you're enabling it, you're responsible for like 10 people getting topfed and he didn't care. But anyway Rich is wrong, after the second wave of ABs it was too late, it was done for, the amount of DR and the time left in the set, no one was ever getting good returns again

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

h2orich

Member
2245

May 26th 2014, 17:03:50

Yea, I just saw that the 2nd wave of ABs were alot, at least 30 of them. lol at #68, getting over 5k acres with SSes.

If you call this abusing, what about this?
http://www.eestats.com/express/oldcountry/614/84

I played #84. I got put heavily into DR from couple of ABs and alot of DHs because I was online at both times when he ABed me. But I continued bottom feeding, I was still running pretty low on turrets, something like 800k-1m. Only did 1 mid-feed on my last attack.

Same scenario, same game play, except 1 was bottom-feeding, 1 was top-feeding. The countries that were bottom-fed had no chance of retalling me. Why didnt anyone call me out?

ddog

Member
206

May 26th 2014, 17:23:58

h2orich, you grabbing me was what prompted my DR thread, but I was not aware that what you were doing was considered illegal.

Cable

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1521

May 26th 2014, 18:21:50

Originally posted by h2orich:

Same thing but less effective to the game, if they players couldn't retal you that changes nothing in the game, players losing 10k-12k total land lost and being unable to get it back even though they can retal is the difference. When you "abused" the DR mechanic you didnt really use it to wreck multiple other players set, but just play with low defense. Which I agree is no better as you further your own score by having less in expenses thus mabye boosting you 1-2 million NW pending when you started running defenseless. All that aside, intentionally using a game mechanic to wreck other players sets or ruin or discourage is a joke. This is no diffrent then the countries who used to have 0 defense get farmed 50 times in a game and carry 0 defense all game. If you cant see how a 1-2 million cash/turn loss doesn't effect the game by topfeeding with no chance of getting it back, then there is no point in debating this any farther.

Congrats to Silent wolf on his win, the scores where very obscured due to abuse of the mechanics but a wins a win.

mr ed

Member
79

May 26th 2014, 18:54:34

Originally posted by blid:

Originally posted by Cable:

Not my problem, and why should I care? The game is how it is. You can play it or you can all whine like babies/cables and say you want the rules changed. Silent wolf didn't get hit but then he wasn't juicy enough to attract it. 16 actually had bugger all jets really until the last 36 hours. I spied him often enough. Again, run more defence.

Cable

Member
1521

May 26th 2014, 19:48:32

Its responses like the one above that makes me wonder how long this game will be around. ill paraphrase what Mr Ed just said.

"I suck to much to level and utterly kill a player, so its not my problem that he wrecks the rest of the game for everyone else."

Cable

Member
1521

May 26th 2014, 19:51:10

You literally finshed 1/4 his size, thats embarrassing.

mr ed

Member
79

May 26th 2014, 20:12:41

I had fun. So did he, apparently. I'm dreadfully embarrassed. It's almost like it's game.

I'll paraphrase Cable:

I thought I could get away with being fat with not enough turrets to defend 2 million jets.

UpTheIrons

Member
463

May 26th 2014, 20:44:52

I got 1/5 back on my retal, but if there wasn't any collusion going on, I have no complaints.

Hitting back more than once is always an option.

ebert00

Member
1087

May 26th 2014, 21:43:36

Originally posted by tellarion:

So 1 topfeed is enough to prevent anyone from getting above 21m? I find that hard to believe...

After I was topfed multiple times I tried recovering only to be topfed again for 1200 acres. As a techer that is 23 turns minimum lost in trying to recover. I tried waiting 24 hours but to no avail. At that point I gave up and decided to war someone instead. I got 14th warring.

I do not see how this Dr abuse is any different than what got me purpled. This guy knew he could take. advantage of his situation and everyone else could. do nothing in return.

ebert00

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1087

May 26th 2014, 21:51:10

On my phone so had to break into two posts...I thought Dr abuse was the intentional abuse of Dr. There is no doubt that he intentionally topfed to take land he could not lose. If he had finished #1 would that have made it different? Maybe next time I war goggles I will just go all jets and topfeed everyone. I think everyone should do it since it is not against the rules.

Just pisses me off that I got purpled for something that I could not fully control( I always pit in so's just don't always get em filled) and was not explicitly against the rules and someone else can abuse Dr and all is fine.

blid

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May 26th 2014, 22:11:37

Here's where Warster previously said this was deletable:
http://www.earthempires.com/...e-on-express-22889#422519

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

mrford

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21,417

May 26th 2014, 22:23:34

anyone notice how its always the same 3-4 people that are fluffing like someone slapped their momma when they dont get their perfect sandbox set? you get to start over next week, be a man about an online game and move on. this isnt a situation those rules were created for.

jesus christ, lets take attacking out of the game all together unless you are going to make a t10!

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

blid

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May 26th 2014, 22:34:47

what if it is a situation those rules are created for, and it is a problem?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

mrford

Member
21,417

May 26th 2014, 22:39:57

it is only a problem because you get butthurt when someone takes your land and you cant get it back. i find it comical what he did.

you want to pretty much edit the rules where no one is allowed to hit you unless you can retal properly. its a pretty childish outlook, and i hope you dont share the same on broader topics like life, because i can assure you that fluff is much less fair than someone taking your land in this game lol. you cant just make the mods change the rules every time you have a bad set. i hope you understand that.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

blid

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May 26th 2014, 22:49:35

you have blinders on because you're preconditioned against 'complaining.' of COURSE i want the rules fixed allowing me to retal properly. think of it from a basic game design perspective: if someone hits you and takes 1500 land away, some kind of outside factor not relating to your offense or the attacker's defense should not prevent you from responding. that would be a flawed mechanic.

1 this is a topic that has come up before.
2 this is a topic that an admin has said should be addressed (#4). http://www.earthempires.com/forum/post/275701/perm
3 this is a topic that another mod has said would merit deletion. http://www.earthempires.com/forum/post/422519/perm

so besides your kneejerk reaction against 'whining' and your careful positioning inside tellarion's jock, what exactly is the logical rebuttal here?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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May 26th 2014, 22:52:04

Originally posted by mrford:

you cant just make the mods change the rules every time you have a bad set. i hope you understand that.

btw that's a flawed assumption, i could have weathered that hit and won easily, and had already moved on, but i entered war with another player, a player who DIDNT abuse dr but topfed me twice. i am not campaigning for a rule change to prevent THAT, am i? so again, you're projecting your strawmen onto me.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

mrford

Member
21,417

May 26th 2014, 22:56:45

the logical rebuttal is you are a child that throws a tantrum and messages all the mods when you dont have an ideal set, and it is pathetic. if you cant see that, then you are beyond help. however, do not mistake my stance as a request for you to STOP acting like a little brat. i find your reactions just as entertaining as the grabbing itself.

the 2 were not coordinating their actions, it was just an opportunistic greifing. his set was over so he decided to have some fun on literally the shortest reset server. it is no different than if someone goes around killing everyone not in GDI. do you want to make everyone join GDI to fix that too?

this isnt your game, it isnt your server. if people play in ways, within the rules, that you dont like, you need to adjust your playing style to adapt, or continue the risk that you take every set by grabbing so much and making yourself a target for those who are bored. ill bet you were the guy that called every foul in a game of pickup basketball.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford

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May 26th 2014, 22:59:16

regardless, debating with someone as butthurt as you neters who live only on solo servers is like trying to push a rope, so i hope you have a better set next set, just stop trying to change rules all the time because you think it needs to be done.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

blid

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May 26th 2014, 23:03:28

oh, are you talking about how i message mods again? because i remember last time you spread that little gossip claiming i msg tellarion all the time, and i hadnt messaged him in 6 months, that was a good time. truly you are a petty, deceitful little man. oh, are you calling me a little brat for bringing up legitimate flaws on the game mechanics? that's another time-tested tactic of yours, instead of addressing actual complaints on their merits you attack the act of filing a grievance itself.

the reason why you end up playing the fool every time you post at me is because you come from a place of preconceptions and bias and personal animosity. look how you frame this as play "within the rules," despite my linking to a previous mod post saying he would delete for it. look how you act like i'm being a crying baby when in addition to citing a specific post from a mod, i also linked to an admin acknowledgment of this problem and suggested solution.

it's up to you man, you can open up your eyes or you can keep being intellectually humiliated.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

mrford

Member
21,417

May 26th 2014, 23:15:33

you are so cute

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

bstrong86

Member
2482

May 26th 2014, 23:42:42

Hilarious, awesome job 16. No one is entitled to fair retals on solo servers. Get big, gain land by any means necisarry. Out side of actual cheating. If we wanted to be technical here mid-feeding, is a deletable offense, if we are going down this road, its forced landtrading. Oh, let me hit this 8k guy while 6k, and lets ghosty gain! But then, im not surprised its the same ppl in this thread throwing a fluff fit.

The Death Knights

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Viceroy

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May 27th 2014, 0:16:33

So what I'm getting from this thread is that taking advantage of being put into diminishing returns is a natural part of game play.

It is deletable if it is coordinated, but if it occurs naturally... game on!

And, Monsters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an ass.

Warster

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May 27th 2014, 0:27:12

These type of DR issues are case by case, as I haven't looked at 16 I don't know what happened, as for the post blid quoted, that was a case of a player known Dr abuser and he was trying to get around the new rules.

So that's why I said I would have deleted him. In this situation it's up to the moderator to decide if this players actions are abuse or not.

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mrford

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May 27th 2014, 0:31:12

dont tell blid that, his confidence in his intellectual superiority and reading comprehension might be shaken. he would be far less entertaining then.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford